Who is Jesus?

[VickyK]

It is my understanding that Jesus is fully human and fully divine (FHaFD). It is also my understanding that Jesus has always existed and always will (saying anything to the contrary would have me kicked out of here for heresy). It is also my understanding that Adam was the first human.

 

[RevelationMan]

In Rev 22:16 Jesus tells us who he is

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

Jesus tells us that he is the "bright Morning Star". Morning Stars are a kind of angel but the "bright" Morning Star indicates that he is the greatest of all angels because everything was made through him and for him. He is the firstborn of all creation and when he was on earth the fullness of the deity dwelt in him.

 

[TMS]

It is my understanding that Jesus is fully human and fully divine (FHaFD). It is also my understanding that Jesus has always existed and always will (saying anything to the contrary would have me kicked out of here for heresy). It is also my understanding that Adam was the first human.

Yes 100% human and 100% divine. We can't comprehend this because we are only human. but don't let anyone tell you that Jesus is less then fully God. When people try to comprehend the divine nature of Jesus it often leads to new theories that only confuse people.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1Co 2:9-11 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

 

[T_Laurich]

Actually we can comprehend this very easily.

Firstly we are two beings, we are spirit and flesh. Our flesh is mortal, corrupted by sin and belongs to Satan. Our spirit is through God un-corrupted. Then we have a third given to us and grafted into us, the Holy Spirit.

But there is another way to easily understand the trinity.

We know though quantum mechanics, and other stuff such as planck length, and electron split theory (tied to quantum mechanics).

That our dimension is fake, or a computer simulation. This is an undisputed fact. We also know that multiple dimensions exist, the amount of which is in debate (not to be confused with multiple universe theory which is bogus).

To understand God, it would best be done through the terms of computers, as they are for all intents and purposes another dimension.

You the user typing on the keyboard would be God, if you had an admin account those admin privileges would be the Holy Spirit, and the posting in which people see would be Jesus.

If you are familiar with video games, You yourself using the controller would be God, the console command menu or manipulation of data would be the Holy Spirit, and the character you are playing would be Jesus.


This easily demonstrates that God is 1 person in multiple forms or dimensions. I hope this helped with your question.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

It is my understanding that Jesus is fully human and fully divine (FHaFD). It is also my understanding that Jesus has always existed and always will (saying anything to the contrary would have me kicked out of here for heresy). It is also my understanding that Adam was the first human.

He only became human vis being born of the virgin Mary. As it is written in John chapter 1 became flesh and dwelt among us.

 

[Journeyman]

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father Jn.14:9

Can you imagine even daring to make a statement like that about yourself?

 

[TMS]

Actually we can comprehend this very easily.

Firstly we are two beings, we are spirit and flesh. Our flesh is mortal, corrupted by sin and belongs to Satan. Our spirit is through God un-corrupted. Then we have a third given to us and grafted into us, the Holy Spirit.

But there is another way to easily understand the trinity.

We know though quantum mechanics, and other stuff such as planck length, and electron split theory (tied to quantum mechanics).

That our dimension is fake, or a computer simulation. This is an undisputed fact. We also know that multiple dimensions exist, the amount of which is in debate (not to be confused with multiple universe theory which is bogus).

To understand God, it would best be done through the terms of computers, as they are for all intents and purposes another dimension.

You the user typing on the keyboard would be God, if you had an admin account those admin privileges would be the Holy Spirit, and the posting in which people see would be Jesus.

If you are familiar with video games, You yourself using the controller would be God, the console command menu or manipulation of data would be the Holy Spirit, and the character you are playing would be Jesus.


This easily demonstrates that God is 1 person in multiple forms or dimensions. I hope this helped with your question.

I have had this talk in great detail with many people, and I've learnt not to go into detail because people are fully convinced in their own minds already.

From what i see you believe God is one.. in 3 forms. Not sure if you are Arian or not.
I think God is one.. Father, Son and Holy Spirit, 3 personalities perfectly united.

Human wisdom is foolishness.

What i'm trying to say is don't try to understand the things of God that are not revealed. Some things have been revealed to us like Salvation, and it is a simple faith in the Saviour Jesus Christ. Knowing about other dimensions or the nature of the Godhead will be revealed when we are able to comprehend things. Comparing God to human creations is an insult to God in my mind.

 

[T_Laurich]

I have had this talk in great detail with many people, and I've learnt not to go into detail because people are fully convinced in their own minds already.

From what i see you believe God is one.. in 3 forms. Not sure if you are Arian or not.
I think God is one.. Father, Son and Holy Spirit, 3 personalities perfectly united.

Human wisdom is foolishness.

What i'm trying to say is don't try to understand the things of God that are not revealed. Some things have been revealed to us like Salvation, and it is a simple faith in the Saviour Jesus Christ. Knowing about other dimensions or the nature of the Godhead will be revealed when we are able to comprehend things. Comparing God to human creations is an insult to God in my mind.

So the issue with your "personality" theory is this.

Firstly, God cannot be bi-polar or schizophrenic. If God had multiple personalities then constant traits across all 3 personalities would be impossible, as they would then be 1 personality. So by your assumptions God does change and is not unchanging.

Furthermore, we know Christ says "whoever has seen me has seen the Father" (John 14:9)
We can know Jesus is not talking about physical sight, as the Father cannot be seen and you still live, (Exodus 33:20)
So we know Jesus is talking about His personality/traits. Disproving your theory again.

Lastly, comparing God to human creations is not an insult, but a way of understanding, Christ used parables (metaphors) multiple times, and the man (John) God chose to wright one of the most important books of the Bible, used analogies to describe God. (Revelation 1:15)



So, to recap, we know God cannot change, having multiple personalities would mean He has changed. 2 Christ calls Himself God and says He is God, (not separate from God as multiple personalities suggest). 3 analogies of God in human form are used multiple times throughout the bible as in Psalm 91, does God have literal wings?

 

[Runningman]

It is my understanding that Jesus is fully human and fully divine (FHaFD). It is also my understanding that Jesus has always existed and always will (saying anything to the contrary would have me kicked out of here for heresy). It is also my understanding that Adam was the first human.

That's right. I would a delineation to be more precise. Jesus has always existed, but did not have a human body until he was incarnated on Earth. He was present in the beginning for creation and His presence is part of what sustains the universe today. Another thing, spiritual things and material things are not always the same, so consider the verses below:

Colossians 1:15-17
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Hebrews 1:1-3
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

 

[TMS]

So the issue with your "personality" theory is this.

Firstly, God cannot be bi-polar or schizophrenic. If God had multiple personalities then constant traits across all 3 personalities would be impossible, as they would then be 1 personality. So by your assumptions God does change and is not unchanging.

Furthermore, we know Christ says "whoever has seen me has seen the Father" (John 14:9)
We can know Jesus is not talking about physical sight, as the Father cannot be seen and you still live, (Exodus 33:20)
So we know Jesus is talking about His personality/traits. Disproving your theory again.

Lastly, comparing God to human creations is not an insult, but a way of understanding, Christ used parables (metaphors) multiple times, and the man (John) God chose to wright one of the most important books of the Bible, used analogies to describe God. (Revelation 1:15)



So, to recap, we know God cannot change, having multiple personalities would mean He has changed. 2 Christ calls Himself God and says He is God, (not separate from God as multiple personalities suggest). 3 analogies of God in human form are used multiple times throughout the bible as in Psalm 91, does God have literal wings?

did Jesus have the opportunity to not do the Fathers will? Could Jesus have failed His mission? If you say no, then salvation was a given and the sacrifice was only physical pain, no temptation to fail. If you say yes, then Jesus can think for Himself. He was so close to the father that He perfectly reflected the Fathers Character traits. We have the opportunity to ignore the Father and Holy Spirit when we choose to do things, and Jesus was tempted in all points like us.

 

[Corban]

It is my understanding that Jesus is fully human and fully divine (FHaFD). It is also my understanding that Jesus has always existed and always will (saying anything to the contrary would have me kicked out of here for heresy). It is also my understanding that Adam was the first human.

Jesus is the Name given to a Man. Matthew 1:21–25 reveals TWO things;

1. Jesus is the Name of the Seed of the woman, promised in Genesis 3:14-15. According to Genesis 1:11-12, the immutable Law of "KINDS", our Lord Jesus must be 100% man. Any living creature with seed can only produce its own kind. So when our Lord Jesus is connected to Mary, He is Jesus (v,21, 25)
2. But then verse 23 says that she is a Virgin. This implies one of two things. Either (i) the whole story is a lie, seeing as a woman cannot conceive without the male seed, or (ii) God intervened, as verse 18 says (see also Luke 1:35). In this case, according to the same Law of seeds, Jesus must be the same "KIND" as God. The Name then given is NOT Jesus, but "EMMANUEL" - God with us.

21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. 24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS."

Our Lord Jesus then possesses BOTH 100% humanity and 100% divinity. But the minute divinity is included, all that our Lord Jesus is, does and/or achieves becomes eternal. So in His humanity He was born in about 4 BC. But in His divinity He "firstborn of all creation" (Col.1:15). And although He died as a Man in about 30 AD, He "was slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev.13:8). Even though these thoughts boggle the mind, we embrace them by FAITH. This is vitally important because a man only could die for the sin and sins of men around him - that is, in his company. But to dies for the sin and sins of ALL men, past, present and future, this salvation must be upgraded from HUMAN endeavor, to ETERNAL endeavor. So Hebrews 5:9 says;

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him"

 

[T_Laurich]

did Jesus have the opportunity to not do the Fathers will? Could Jesus have failed His mission? If you say no, then salvation was a given and the sacrifice was only physical pain, no temptation to fail. If you say yes, then Jesus can think for Himself. He was so close to the father that He perfectly reflected the Fathers Character traits. We have the opportunity to ignore the Father and Holy Spirit when we choose to do things, and Jesus was tempted in all points like us.

Can God sin? The answer is no. And we know God is unchanging.

But you assume temptation and sin are the same thing. This is not true, how do we know this is not true? Jesus said "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God" (Matthew 4:7).

So, we know God cannot sin, and we know God can be tempted because it comes from His own mouth.

But the word tempted can mean multiple things, so lets look at the Greek.

ἐκπειράζω

1. o prove, test, thoroughly
2. to put to proof God's character and power

So we know tempt means to test in Matthew 4:7. We also know that Christ was tested on earth.




You might ask, if Christ was God, how did Satan have authority to take him places such as the mountain? The answer is simple, Christ was in mans flesh. and Satan owns the Flesh. (Ephesians 2) But we also know that Christ is God (John 1:1) This verse makes it extremely specific. They are two different beings, yet both God.


We also know that only his flesh died.(1 Peter 3:18) For He cannot die because He is God.



Jesus conquered the Flesh. He fulfilled the requirements to obtain the rights/deed of mankind. Under sin we were slaves to Satan.
There is nothing, NOTHING in the Bible that says Christ was able to sin.

What you will find is Hebrews 4:15 where it states He was tempted.
πειράω
To test, to make trial, to put to proof


Notice, the bible is very specific in Hebrews 4:15 as it uses the word συμπαθέω or in english Sympathy.

Sympathy is extremely different than Empathy.

Sympathy means to understand someones pain. Empathy means to experience someones pain.
For instance, I can break my arm and have sympathy of your broken leg, but not empathy unless I experience it.

So yes, Jesus had sexual temptation of the Flesh. However, did He as a man experience a woman's sexual temptation?
We also know that in Genesis women were given an unique curse, that they would lust to be over man, Christ could not experience that curse as a man, so is it still every way? (Genesis 3:16)

Christ was tempted by lust, envy, pride, etc and understands the curse even tho He did not experience that specific one.


To wrap this up because I am tired and need sleep, you have failed to read the Bible for what it is, and you have explained away the greatness of God.

Christ was not tempted exactly like us, that would be an absurd statement, as shown with women having an unique curse. He was 100% unable to sin because He is God as stated in John 1:1.
And I won't even touch your statement " He was so close to the father that He perfectly reflected the Fathers Character traits." that you have made. Because again, John 1:1 destroys your assertion, as He IS God, not 'He is like God'.

You have unknowingly made God into a bi-polar schizophrenic being in which traits are only specifically bound to certain projections of Him.

So I have a question for you: What trait does Christ have that God does not have or vice versa?

Both show they are all knowing: Christ was all knowing (Luke 2:47) and (Luke 19:40)
So what trait?

 

[T_Laurich]

Re-reading my post I can see I rambled a lot and was not concise. I hope you can understand what I am saying in the post.

My biggest point with this one is you said "We have the opportunity to ignore the Father and Holy Spirit when we choose to do things, and Jesus was tempted in all points like us. "

Which is completely untrue as shown in Genesis 3:16 where women have a unique curse only given to them. Christ was not a woman, so therefore he could not be tempted in all points like us.

Furthermore John1:1 says Jesus was God and we know God cannot sin.

Lastly, tempted does not mean sin, it means tested, to put on trial. You are bait and switching the definition to mean "ability of sin".

I will respond when I am more rested, sorry for the bad trains of thought, I am tired

 

[Adstar]

It is my understanding that Jesus is fully human and fully divine (FHaFD). It is also my understanding that Jesus has always existed and always will (saying anything to the contrary would have me kicked out of here for heresy). It is also my understanding that Adam was the first human.

Jesus is LORD..

As for heresy,, in my opinion this place has it's fair share of heresy..

 

[Adstar]

In Rev 22:16 Jesus tells us who he is

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

Jesus tells us that he is the "bright Morning Star". Morning Stars are a kind of angel but the "bright" Morning Star indicates that he is the greatest of all angels because everything was made through him and for him. He is the firstborn of all creation and when he was on earth the fullness of the deity dwelt in him.

And this is the heresy i was speaking of.. Jesus is NOT an Angel..

 

[VickyK]

And this is the heresy i was speaking of.. Jesus is NOT an Angel..

Isn't Lucifer the Morning Star?

 

[T_Laurich]

Isn't Lucifer the Morning Star?

Satan is a Cherubim, and was called the morning star. But this is a title/description not a name.

 

[RevelationMan]

Isn't Lucifer the Morning Star?

Satan is a morning star but he is NOT the "bright" Morning Star. Jesus is the ONLY "bright" Morning Star.

In John 1:1-2 it explains that the Word (Jesus) was with God and was God.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

God was at the beginning but as soon as God spoke that word that he spoke became his son and ultimately became flesh. So Jesus is that Word that became flesh and that Word was God before he spoke. At the moment God spoke Jesus came into existence and therefore is truly the Word of God.

so someone may ask what Word was spoken that became flesh. As John tells us the "Word was God". So the word that was spoken was "God". God spoke everything into existence by speaking the word "God" at the beginning of creation.

here is a short video that demonstrates the beginning and end of creation
http://mobilelaz.com/judgmentday/creation.mp4

 

[VickyK]

Satan is a morning star but he is NOT the "bright" Morning Star. Jesus is the ONLY "bright" Morning Star.

In John 1:1-2 it explains that the Word (Jesus) was with God and was God.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

God was at the beginning but as soon as God spoke that word that he spoke became his son and ultimately became flesh. So Jesus is that Word that became flesh and that Word was God before he spoke. At the moment God spoke Jesus came into existence and therefore is truly the Word of God.

so someone may ask what Word was spoken that became flesh. As John tells us the "Word was God". So the word that was spoken was "God". God spoke everything into existence by speaking the word "God" at the beginning of creation.

here is a short video that demonstrates the beginning and end of creation
http://mobilelaz.com/judgmentday/creation.mp4

Ah yes, I forgot that passage.

"And let it be known to ye that whilst Lucifer bears the title Morning Star, it is the LORD whom we call the Bright Morning Star, for he is the Morning Star so distinguished as brightest of all."

The Word was with God. It doesn't mention Jesus in that passage.

If God was at the beginning, and it was not until God spoke that Jesus began to exist, God predates Jesus in your opinion. You deny the eternality of our Lord. I will be reporting you for heresy.

If Jesus was at the beginning of time he would be the first man. Jesus is FHaFD.

 

[notuptome]

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Jesus was in the God head from eternity past. Jesus received a body in the fullness of Gods time.

For the cause of Christ
Roger