Do we have to love our enemies in order to be saved?

[Marcelo]

Hi Marcello,

It would help if you could give scripture.

Mt 19:17
World English Bible
He said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Before one is saved we do not have the capacity to love our enemies

we love because he first loved us. (We must be saved first)

to,demand someone must love first is to place requirements god has not made and asked a person to do something they do not have the capacity to do

even after we are saved, we will not automatically love our enemy, it may take time, and even then, is still not a requirememt

 

[Marcelo]

Hi Marcello,

It would help if you could give scripture.

Ephesians 2:8-10

New International Version

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

 

[throughfaith]

Do you actually not know how to repent or what repent means? If you have a church, please ask your minister to explain it to you, it is important to know.

I know what it means. I did an entire thread on the subject. I notice some have varied understandings on this. Mostly its ' repent of sins ' . Which is found no where .

 

[AgapeShellArt]

Three decades ago a co-worker of mine was rendered paraplegic by a thief. A group of believers and myself went to her home to comfort her.

We talked about the brevity of life on earth and everlasting life in heaven, etc., but not long after that, one of our fellow believers bluntly asked the physically disabled girl: "Have you already forgiven the guy who did this to you?"

The girl got embarrassed and tried to change the subject, but the guy kept insisting that she should not only forgive, but also love the thief, and so he ruined the gathering.

The unpleasant event led me and some other guys to examine the Scripture to see if LOVING OUR ENEMIES is a requirement for salvation. We came to the conclusion that we must always do our best to love our enemies, but if we don't attain such perfection we don't lose salvation.

A pastor back then told us: "Jesus preached to the Jews and Paul preached to us (the Gentiles). To be saved we must follow the teachings of Paul and of other apostles (which are actually from Jesus) and don't have to obey ALL teachings that Jesus gave to the Jews because we are now under a new covenant.

What is your opinion about this?

I believe if we don't forgive it will not affect our eternal salvation but will affect our current earthly life negatively

 

[AgapeShellArt]

I am trying to forgive, this very difficult, especially because these people took my health and I have a daughter to look after. They never felt sorry and think it is my fault that I got ill. While was busy loving them they took everything out of me, even my legal rights .I was pressured by an abusive husband to sign documents for a loan, which I wasn't agree with. He tortured me every day until I 've signed them, for the sake of my own sanity. Now even many years after the divorce the loan is still on my name, and I haven't got even the documents for that. That is one little example what some people can do.

It's really hard to forgive.

My heart is sadden, so my words and thoughts are jumbled.

Main points:

It's not your fault if you are ill.

Sadden that your husband was abusive.

Will pray for you and your daughter. God bless.

 

[AgapeShellArt]

Mat_5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;


These enemies are the ones often within the body of Christ and other social circles that tend to argue and disagree with each other. These are not the enemies of God that actively work to block the gospel or the types of evil people that murder and rape people. So, there are different kinds of enemies we face. Some we should love, some we should not.

Jesus spoke of personal or religious enemies, people who caused you trouble ignorantly. Jesus isn't talking about dangerous enemies that mean to harm or kill you. Jesus will an army full of his enemies at Armageddon and Jesus isn't a hypocrite

In modern language I believe the verse would be, "But I say unto you, Love your Frenemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; "

"So, there are different kinds of enemies we face. Some we should love, some we should not."

Sorry, but I am too simple minded to understand this statement

When Jesus says to love my enemies... I always believed it included everyone who hates or means me harm....I am not clever enough to tell the difference and be able to tell who God doesn't want us to love

 

[phil36]

Mt 19:17
World English Bible
He said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Great scripture Marcelo, I'm not sure why you would think Jesus' words/teachings are not for Christians though? Of course again you have taken 1 sentence from a discourse..what is the point of the discourse? Matthew 19: 16-30 (not just the one verse you have isolated from any context). Plus doesn't Jesus elsewhere tell us how we can keep the commandments? Oh and Paul also agree's? And even better you will it in the Old Testament as well.


Do to others what you want them to do to you. This is the meaning of the law of Moses and the teaching of the prophets.
— Matthew 7:12. cf. Luke 10:25-28

Now for Paul -

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
— Galatians 5:14

and from the OT -

You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against your kinsfolk. Love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.
— Leviticus 19:18

And Just a last one showing that Jesus' teaching applies to all Christians...Paul most definitely agrees. -

“The commandments, ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not covet,’ and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’” Romans 13:8-9.

 

[Guardian1970]

Three decades ago a co-worker of mine was rendered paraplegic by a thief. A group of believers and myself went to her home to comfort her.

We talked about the brevity of life on earth and everlasting life in heaven, etc., but not long after that, one of our fellow believers bluntly asked the physically disabled girl: "Have you already forgiven the guy who did this to you?"

The girl got embarrassed and tried to change the subject, but the guy kept insisting that she should not only forgive, but also love the thief, and so he ruined the gathering.

The unpleasant event led me and some other guys to examine the Scripture to see if LOVING OUR ENEMIES is a requirement for salvation. We came to the conclusion that we must always do our best to love our enemies, but if we don't attain such perfection we don't lose salvation.

A pastor back then told us: "Jesus preached to the Jews and Paul preached to us (the Gentiles). To be saved we must follow the teachings of Paul and of other apostles (which are actually from Jesus) and don't have to obey ALL teachings that Jesus gave to the Jews because we are now under a new covenant.

What is your opinion about this?

Your pastor was wrong, Jesus as He left the Mount of Olives and ascended gave the Apostles charge to go and preach the gospel throughout the world, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE commanded you, surly I am with you to the very end of the age.

This is the words of Christ, who is greater? The teacher or the student? Who should be honored then?

When we in the flesh, walk in the flesh, we will do according to the flesh as those who are of the world act, which is the bad tree.

When you are in the Spirit, being born of the Spirit, then being in the His Spirit. His nature will act for you. Which is the good tree that you become when you are born again.

This is why the Jesus said, that which is born of flesh is flesh, that which is born of Spirit is Spirit.

I am sorry the person jumped to that position. They were not wrong, but tact with gentleness should have been followed. We are all human in the flesh, and if we are not walking as we should with God, then or initial reactions will be in the flesh. Which carries with it the self centered worldly reactions of hurt, anger, and the want of vengeance.

Those in the Spirit must be mindful that not all those who think they know the Lord know Him. They also must be mindful that not all people are in the same place in their journey to the promise land through the wilderness.

When they do learn of him, there is a learning curve. It takes time, the best teacher is the Holy Spirit, the Word and life, that is how God taught me. No man taught me, the Lord is my Teacher and my Master thanks be to God!

 

[Blik]

I know what it means. I did an entire thread on the subject. I notice some have varied understandings on this. Mostly its ' repent of sins ' . Which is found no where .

If you think the Lord must name each item we are to repent from to mean to repent? We need the entire message of Christ and all Christ tells us about sin.

 

[throughfaith]

If you think the Lord must name each item we are to repent from to mean to repent? We need the entire message of Christ and all Christ tells us about sin.

yes he paid for all sins through his blood .

 

[Marcelo]

I believe if we don't forgive it will not affect our eternal salvation but will affect our current earthly life negatively

In the first place we have to know if the person wants forgiveness. I don't know if the Bible says anywhere that we must forgive regardless of a request.

If we don't forgive we are harming ourselves. The grudge we hold keeps us away from the Holy Spirit and our spiritual life may deteriorate -- I say this from experience.

However, just like you, I don't think that the sole fact that we fail to forgive someone will prevent us from being saved.

It's always nice to bear in mind that Jesus was expounding the law of Moses to the Jews. In other words, Jesus was bringing the law of Moses to perfection to show that no one could be saved by keeping the law. He was the only person on earth who entirely kept the law of Moses.

 

[Marcelo]

Your pastor was wrong, Jesus as He left the Mount of Olives and ascended gave the Apostles charge to go and preach the gospel throughout the world, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE commanded you, surly I am with you to the very end of the age.

Yes, Jesus told his disciples to teach others to obey everything He had commanded. The change from Old Covenant to New Covenant didn't happen overnight. The council of Jerusalem (when the law of Moses was officially abolished) took place some 15 years after the cross.

 

[CS1]

Three decades ago a co-worker of mine was rendered paraplegic by a thief. A group of believers and myself went to her home to comfort her.

We talked about the brevity of life on earth and everlasting life in heaven, etc., but not long after that, one of our fellow believers bluntly asked the physically disabled girl: "Have you already forgiven the guy who did this to you?"

The girl got embarrassed and tried to change the subject, but the guy kept insisting that she should not only forgive, but also love the thief, and so he ruined the gathering.

The unpleasant event led me and some other guys to examine the Scripture to see if LOVING OUR ENEMIES is a requirement for salvation. We came to the conclusion that we must always do our best to love our enemies, but if we don't attain such perfection we don't lose salvation.

A pastor back then told us: "Jesus preached to the Jews and Paul preached to us (the Gentiles). To be saved we must follow the teachings of Paul and of other apostles (which are actually from Jesus) and don't have to obey ALL teachings that Jesus gave to the Jews because we are now under a new covenant.

What is your opinion about this?

I would not have asked, "Have you already forgiven the guy who did this to you?".

many think when Jesus said forgive means You are compromising, excusing, or approving what happened to is ok.

That is not the case God will repay, just as HE will and did for Able, and many others. When we forgive it allows us to move ON with God and not allow us to become controlled by the evil done to us.
the forgiveness is not for the person it is for me. I trust God to provide me Justice NOT revenge. Loving our enemy means

TO TELL THEM the truth. To let them know what they did was wrong and God will deal with them. I forgive what you did to me but I also know my God will deal with you in this manner for touching HIS anointed. I pray you to repent and surrender to the Lord.
This sin will not go unpaid.

 

[Marcelo]

Guardian1970 said:
Your pastor was wrong, Jesus as He left the Mount of Olives and ascended gave the Apostles charge to go and preach the gospel throughout the world, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE commanded you, surly I am with you to the very end of the age.

Yes, Jesus told his disciples to teach others to obey everything He had commanded. The change from Old Covenant to New Covenant didn't happen overnight. The council of Jerusalem (when the law of Moses was officially abolished) took place some 15 years after the cross.

Initially, Jesus' disciples taught the law of Moses. For example: they would sell their properties and give the money to the poor, just as Jesus told the rich young ruler to do.

Then came Paul and he had trouble teaching some disciples the New Covenant.

 

[phil36]

Initially, Jesus' disciples taught the law of Moses. For example: they would sell their properties and give the money to the poor, just as Jesus told the rich young ruler to do.

Then came Paul and he had trouble teaching some disciples the New Covenant.

That's interesting did Jesus actually teach we have to sell all our property and give it to the poor, and then Paul have to come along and correct Jesus for not teaching properly.

Can you show this in scripture and in context.

 

[Marcelo]

That's interesting did Jesus actually teach we have to sell all our property and give it to the poor, and then Paul have to come along and correct Jesus for not teaching properly.

Can you show this in scripture and in context.

No, Paul didn't correct Jesus -- he was used by the Lord as a spokesperson to preach the Gospel of Grace (the New Covenant), because while on earth Jesus preached only the Gospel of the Kingdom.


Galatians 1:11-24

New International Version

Paul Called by God
11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
13 For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. 14 I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being. 17 I did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus.
18 Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas[a] and stayed with him fifteen days. 19 I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord’s brother. 20 I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie.
21 Then I went to Syria and Cilicia. 22 I was personally unknown to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23 They only heard the report: “The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” 24 And they praised God because of me.

 

[phil36]

Hi Marcello,

I agree Paul was taught by Christ, but so was John, Peter etc. I love how in the New Testament the word God Paul refers to is actually the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus.

I disagree with your divided modus operandi. With Jesus' birth dawned the in breaking of the Kingdom of God..it central to his teachings. Its God's rule or Reign..Christ is the King of the Kingdom already. In fact he tells its here already.

The Coming of the Kingdom

Luke 17:20-21

20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”

He was telling the Jews their (and ours) Messiah and his Kingdom had arrived. However, not in the way they thought. Jesus was telling these guys and us, that, he had brought the kingdom, His miracles all point to the Kingdom of God now being a reality, it is what the Old Testament had been pointing to. Jesus further affirms this with His miracles -

"But if it is by the finger of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you". Luke 11:20.

Your mistaking apples for oranges. Jesus shows us Kingdom life.


Paul teaches nothing different from Jesus. Remember Paul's writings are letters that answer specific questions and problems from various churches. (an example: 1 Corinthians 7:1 Now for the matters you wrote about ..... )
Paul expounds the teachings of Jesus..he's giving instruction on theological meaning and practical instruction. A great example of that is the book of Romans the first half is theological then he proceeds to tell us how that works out in are walk with Jesus. But here is something for you to remember he is using his knowledge as an ex pharisee (phil: 3:5) of scripture, that is the Old testament and the teachings of Jesus.



The Old and New testament in totality is for Christians. If you don't believe that Marcello you are missing out. I know where you are coming from though. A few years back there was another guy who held the same views as you.

Plus every single word in scripture is Jesus talking to us. Remember also that we are- already but not yet. The kingdom is like a mustard seed. its growing now and will fully bloom when King Jesus returns..Amen.

Anyhow i'm of to bed. enjoy the rest of your evening.

 

[Adstar]

Let´s consider one example:

Jesus said: keep the commandments (the law, in order to be saved);

Paul said: salvation is by grace and faith alone (with no works of the law).

If I choose to follow Paul I am not disregarding Jesus. On the contrary, I will be doing what is applicable to Christians today.

What Paul means by "another Jesus" in the verse you mentioned are false teachings created by men; not teachings that were revealed to Paul by the risen Jesus.

Jesus said: keep the commandments (the law, in order to be saved);

Quote the verse where Jesus said this..

What Paul means by "another Jesus" in the verse you mentioned are false teachings created by men;

Yes and someone who preaches that the teachings of Jesus are no longer applicable to us such as his teachings on the sermon on the mount are preaching another Jesus..

 

[Blik]

That's interesting did Jesus actually teach we have to sell all our property and give it to the poor, and then Paul have to come along and correct Jesus for not teaching properly.

Can you show this in scripture and in context.

Jesus did not say you must sell your property in order to be saved, but Jesus DID say that in order to be forgiven you must forgive. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.