Are Christians more accepting of charlatans then we should be?

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goanna

New member
Jan 28, 2021
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#41
that sounds more like the spirit of debate instead of edifying. wanting to be right and not wanting to do the work or support it in the local church setting. it is known as being a rebel. The most successful Pastors worked with and for other pastors who held to the word of God. Today many get the feeling hurt and come to church to look to correct the " Pastor" or cause division because they think they know more. it is an excellent display of immaturity.
Guilty as charged.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#42
Thanks for your reply Dino.

I found in the Church that few people were willing to search the scriptures for themselves, instead all too willing to basically allow others to think for them
While people are capable of independent thinking, it's like waking up for the first time and using muscles never before exercised. It's an uncomfortable and maybe even painful experience.

People prefer the path of least resistance, wanting instead to offload as many responsibilities as possiblity onto anything or anyone else.

People are all too willing to allow others to think for them. Unfortunately no one can be trusted with the sacred responsibility of leadership aside from God Himself or those He has placed in positions of leadership.

Therefore, those who are placed in positions of leadership have great responsibility as shepherd's of souls. May God bless you in your ability to fulfill this station.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#43
I don't know anything about Hillsong other than what I have seen on videos. I bear witness with the Holy Spirit in the hearts of the musicians, even if there are those that fall away from time to time.

I love mega churches that are full of outreach ministries where many are getting saved and growth is explosive. I would love to support those kinds of churches. Much more than a small tiny church that has not done a thing to reach out in 20 years and are just going through the motions of Sunday service.

I think the pastor needs a raise if he is only making 40K
 
Jan 28, 2021
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#44
you know nothing of pastoring The person is worth the labor even slaves are to receive a just payment.
With all due respect, your posts seem rather abrasive.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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#47
Let me ask you, do you love @notuptome as a Christian? Do you forgive anything he may have said or done to you?
I'm sure Notuptome will tell you from his perspective I'm am unbiblical. Telling the truth is a display of love receiving it is the responsibility of the hearer. I have nothing to forgive him of.
 
Jan 28, 2021
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#48
I'm sure Notuptome will tell you from his perspective I'm am unbiblical. Telling the truth is a display of love receiving it is the responsibility of the hearer. I have nothing to forgive him of.
I don't care about notuptome's perspective, I'm asking a question directly to you, about yourself.
I'm asking him if you love him as a fellow Christian? Yes or no....
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,067
4,349
113
#49
I don't care about notuptome's perspective, I'm asking a question directly to you, about yourself.
I'm asking him if you love him as a fellow Christian? Yes or no....
yes, I do :) what is your understanding of it may be different from mine.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#52
Let me ask you, do you love @notuptome as a Christian? Do you forgive anything he may have said or done to you?
What has Hillsong done to you? Other than, Ask you for money, tell you that pastors are gifts to the churches, be audacious enough to drive a new car (oh the horror!) and accept 58K salary? Oh, and something vague about business practices. Do you forgive them? Maybe you should notice how silly it sounds in your out loud voice?

Nothing you said supports calling them charlatans. You have put this out there and now I hope you can accept the feedback that it makes you look petty, critical, faultfinding and possible a false accuser. I would have to investigate first hand each of your accusations because I am more skeptical of your perception of reality than I am of the church you attended.

Your seem to lack comprehension that your examples do not support the claim of charlatan. That is why I doubt your accusations have substance.
 
Jan 28, 2021
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#54
What has Hillsong done to you? Other than, Ask you for money, tell you that pastors are gifts to the churches, be audacious enough to drive a new car (oh the horror!) and accept 58K salary? Oh, and something vague about business practices. Do you forgive them? Maybe you should notice how silly it sounds in your out loud voice?

Nothing you said supports calling them charlatans. You have put this out there and now I hope you can accept the feedback that it makes you look petty, critical, faultfinding and possible a false accuser. I would have to investigate first hand each of your accusations because I am more skeptical of your perception of reality than I am of the church you attended.

Your seem to lack comprehension that your examples do not support the claim of charlatan. That is why I doubt your accusations have substance.
Thank you for your input, I appreciate it.

Have a wonderful day.
 
Jan 28, 2021
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#56
I'm saying I make no list of offenses to forgive him for. Maybe you should ask him?
I'm not asking him, I'm asking you.
It's good that he hasn't offended you, though.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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Australia
#58
Hello everybody,

I hope you are all well.
I have been lurking on this forum for some time and decided to join - thanks to the administrators for approving my profile very quickly.

The thing I'd like to get people's views on is whether we as a broad church are more accepting of charlatans and narcissists than we should be.

I had a bad experience at a so called church (Hillsong) about 2 years ago and haven't returned since.
I left because I didn't like how people were manipulated into tithing (not a requirement for modern day Christians) and side-lined if they didn't give in to the manipulation.
I gave to the Church myself, but eventually realised I was doing so under compulsion which is when my eyes were opened to the manipulation.

I also didn't like how closed the 'books' (financial records) were.
The pastor always said the the 'books' were open and free for all to examine, but when a couple of people from the church asked to look at the 'books', they were simply forwarded to the statutory accounts on a government website.
The statutory accounts provide a summary, not a full breakdown.

The pastor and his wife were also living the life of Riley: new car paid for by church, utility bills paid for by church, travel expenses paid for by church, near £40k a year wage (which doesn't include his wife's wage!).
I even witnessed the pastor say during a sermon that he is "God's gift to the church"! Massive ego.

I came to the conclusion that the church was being run like a business.
I did some research on Hillsong and realised that Hillsong is definitely money orientated.

Any thoughts?

Sorry in advance if this divides opinion.
How many churches have you been to where you've noticed money issues?
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,386
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#60
Guilty as charged.
I just thought you were being honest about some possible flaws you might have. I see that as a positive thing.
We must all "work out our salvation" and pursue personal development.