Not a Salvation Issue / Not Required for Salvation
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You interpret the bible in the way that it suits you. This is proven by the fact that you are rambling on and have not provided any bible verse to substantiate what you are saying. Therefore what you are saying, since you have not provided a scripture to substantiate it, is your own words and your own understanding. Therefore what you have written is meaningless.
In Matthew 7 its talking about false teaching . The ' fruit ' is the false prophets teachings.
15¶Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
15¶Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
E
From what I have seen. No one has answered your question even though we all have
your question was how can we tell if something is salvic or not
my response is a perfect answer to your question.
because it states, unless a doctrine or teaching is talking about salvation by grace through faith, then it is not salvic.
and as far s is baptism or other stuff salvic teachings, it also answered that In that no they are not salvic.
your question was how can we tell if something is salvic or not
my response is a perfect answer to your question.
because it states, unless a doctrine or teaching is talking about salvation by grace through faith, then it is not salvic.
and as far s is baptism or other stuff salvic teachings, it also answered that In that no they are not salvic.
E
I think it is funny how you skipped over any post where I actually posted a book and chapter to refute what you have said, I have not given any verses, this just proves how dishonest you are
i have read the Bible from front to back numerous times,
the pharisee could quote the OT verbatim, yet we see how they could not the words, but never knew what God was trying to tell them
reading is just part of the equation,
i have read the Bible from front to back numerous times,
the pharisee could quote the OT verbatim, yet we see how they could not the words, but never knew what God was trying to tell them
reading is just part of the equation,
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it is important to also remember, one who doesn't agree with you is not to be seen as disagreeing with God's word.
All of us including you, are not able to fully understand all of God. Salvation is through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ period.
Faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of HIM. Having faith in HIM for those things means you understand why He
1. had to die and for who
2. what burial meant and why we die
3. What His resurrection means and testify to WHO HE is.
Baptism water, speaking in tongues, communion, church membership, tithing, feeding the poor NONE of this saves you.
These are all done after one has placed their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. The Cause is Christ, the effect is the belief and obedience to what one confesses. Faith produces action which is belief: Because we are saved and believe we are baptized, receive the Holy Spirit, participate in the Lord Supper, and the love for God makes us what to serve HIM by helping others.
All of us including you, are not able to fully understand all of God. Salvation is through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ period.
Faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of HIM. Having faith in HIM for those things means you understand why He
1. had to die and for who
2. what burial meant and why we die
3. What His resurrection means and testify to WHO HE is.
Baptism water, speaking in tongues, communion, church membership, tithing, feeding the poor NONE of this saves you.
These are all done after one has placed their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. The Cause is Christ, the effect is the belief and obedience to what one confesses. Faith produces action which is belief: Because we are saved and believe we are baptized, receive the Holy Spirit, participate in the Lord Supper, and the love for God makes us what to serve HIM by helping others.
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Your detractors in this thread are basically covenant theologians. They believed that it has always been by grace thru faith in Christ, apart from works ever since the fall of Adam.
For example, they believe that, even during the 4 gospels, believing in Jesus alone is sufficient for salvation.
To back up this doctrine, they simply quote verses that "seem" to imply that belief in Jesus is all that is required, for example the ever popular John 3:16, and ignore all other verses when Jesus talked about following the Law of Moses, or simply interpret all those passages in the light of Pauline doctrine.
But for you, you are one who insist that everyone must try their best to keep the Law, along with belief in Jesus.
To back up this doctrine you would make sure to quote the OT, all the verses in the 4 Gospels that Jesus talked about following the Law.
For example, they believe that, even during the 4 gospels, believing in Jesus alone is sufficient for salvation.
To back up this doctrine, they simply quote verses that "seem" to imply that belief in Jesus is all that is required, for example the ever popular John 3:16, and ignore all other verses when Jesus talked about following the Law of Moses, or simply interpret all those passages in the light of Pauline doctrine.
But for you, you are one who insist that everyone must try their best to keep the Law, along with belief in Jesus.
To back up this doctrine you would make sure to quote the OT, all the verses in the 4 Gospels that Jesus talked about following the Law.
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If it is true that you have read the bible numerous times, then you have been wasting your time in doing so because you do not want to do what the bible says. Christ said that those who hear what He says, but do not do what He says are foolish.
Matthew 7:24-26 says, “And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:”
Those who do what Christ said are called wise according to Matthew 7:24. There is also Luke 11:28 that says, “But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.”
You read the bible, but you do not want to do what is written in it. Therefore all that numerous reading was pointless.
Matthew 7:24-26 says, “And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:”
Those who do what Christ said are called wise according to Matthew 7:24. There is also Luke 11:28 that says, “But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.”
You read the bible, but you do not want to do what is written in it. Therefore all that numerous reading was pointless.
Hello CS1
Yes, salvation is through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ period. Although these additional things like baptism, tithing, giving to the poor etc. are not essential to salvation, they are included in the bible.
Since they are included in the bible, it means that God wants us to do them. We cannot keep disobeying them and making excuses that they are not a salvation issue.
God takes everything that He says seriously and He expects us to have that attitude as well. I have already mentioned the example King Saul (1 Samuel 15) who disobeyed God’s command and did fully destroy the Amalekites and all that they had. King Saul was punished by God for his disobedience although his disobedience was not breaking any of the 10 commandments or disobeying anything mentioned in Deuteronomy, Exodus or Leviticus
There are some things in the New Testament that God tells us to do and I do them and I understand why God wants them to be done.
But for some instructions, I do not fully understand why God wants us to do them and I do not see the benefit of some of the things God has instructed us to do. But I do them any way and I do not believe in making excuses. And when I struggle, I pray and ask God to help me and He does.
Yes, salvation is through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ period. Although these additional things like baptism, tithing, giving to the poor etc. are not essential to salvation, they are included in the bible.
Since they are included in the bible, it means that God wants us to do them. We cannot keep disobeying them and making excuses that they are not a salvation issue.
God takes everything that He says seriously and He expects us to have that attitude as well. I have already mentioned the example King Saul (1 Samuel 15) who disobeyed God’s command and did fully destroy the Amalekites and all that they had. King Saul was punished by God for his disobedience although his disobedience was not breaking any of the 10 commandments or disobeying anything mentioned in Deuteronomy, Exodus or Leviticus
There are some things in the New Testament that God tells us to do and I do them and I understand why God wants them to be done.
But for some instructions, I do not fully understand why God wants us to do them and I do not see the benefit of some of the things God has instructed us to do. But I do them any way and I do not believe in making excuses. And when I struggle, I pray and ask God to help me and He does.
@eternally-gratefull and @throughfaith
I am not surprised at the fact that you have falsely accused me of being a liar and calling me a false prophet, legalist etc. Christ did warn that when you are His follower that you will be persecuted
John 15:20 says, “Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.”
Christ also warned that those who will be rewarded in heaven will have people speaking evil against them falsely
Matthew 5:11 says, “Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.”
Matthew 5:12 says, “Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”
In this thread, I have not lied and have substantiated what I believe by providing bible verses. What I have been saying is truth because the bible says that God’s Word is truth (John 17:17). And yet you have falsely accused me as a liar. Your false accusation is a fulfilment of what Jesus said in John 15:20 and Matthew 5:11 of those who are his true disciples.
I am not the only one who has been falsely accused of being something that I am not:
Therefore as a Christian I expect to called a liar and being falsely accused and be called worse names
Christ said that you will have to carry your cross and follow Him. I am willing to carry my cross and follow Christ and be falsely accused of being a liar and a false prophet and even worse for His name sake. For Christ is my Lord and His my Saviour and He endured the same for me and I am willing to endure the same for Him because I love Him.
Those who against obeying God
1 John 3:8 says, “He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”
The devil was the first being to sin and disobey God. Those who are against obeying God have the same mind-set as the devil. The devil does not want obey God and would never do what the bible says. Those who ignore God’s Word and choose to believe certain parts of the bible that suit them are just like him. Ephesians 2:2 says that the devil controls such disobedient people.
Ephesians 2:2 says, “Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience”
I am not surprised at the fact that you have falsely accused me of being a liar and calling me a false prophet, legalist etc. Christ did warn that when you are His follower that you will be persecuted
John 15:20 says, “Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.”
Christ also warned that those who will be rewarded in heaven will have people speaking evil against them falsely
Matthew 5:11 says, “Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.”
Matthew 5:12 says, “Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”
In this thread, I have not lied and have substantiated what I believe by providing bible verses. What I have been saying is truth because the bible says that God’s Word is truth (John 17:17). And yet you have falsely accused me as a liar. Your false accusation is a fulfilment of what Jesus said in John 15:20 and Matthew 5:11 of those who are his true disciples.
I am not the only one who has been falsely accused of being something that I am not:
- Jeremiah was falsely accused of lying and speaking falsely (Jeremiah 43:2)
- Elijah was falsely accused of being a troubler of Israel (1 Kings 18:17)
- Jesus was falsely accused of been demon possessed (John 7:20)
Therefore as a Christian I expect to called a liar and being falsely accused and be called worse names
Christ said that you will have to carry your cross and follow Him. I am willing to carry my cross and follow Christ and be falsely accused of being a liar and a false prophet and even worse for His name sake. For Christ is my Lord and His my Saviour and He endured the same for me and I am willing to endure the same for Him because I love Him.
Those who against obeying God
1 John 3:8 says, “He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”
The devil was the first being to sin and disobey God. Those who are against obeying God have the same mind-set as the devil. The devil does not want obey God and would never do what the bible says. Those who ignore God’s Word and choose to believe certain parts of the bible that suit them are just like him. Ephesians 2:2 says that the devil controls such disobedient people.
Ephesians 2:2 says, “Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience”
E
You will be ignored now
1. Your arrogant. Thinking your way is the only way and if we do not listen to you we do not listen to God
2 you twist scripture and even after multiple people try to show you you refuse to even discuss it but turn to condemn them
3 you have lied numerous times saying people have not done something they surely have
I am just not willing to play silly games you want to play. Go
Find people who will bow to your almightyness. I refuse
1. Your arrogant. Thinking your way is the only way and if we do not listen to you we do not listen to God
2 you twist scripture and even after multiple people try to show you you refuse to even discuss it but turn to condemn them
3 you have lied numerous times saying people have not done something they surely have
I am just not willing to play silly games you want to play. Go
Find people who will bow to your almightyness. I refuse
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Hi Godcares,
Yes God most certainly wants us to Obey HIm amen.
However, God wants us to obey Him out of love for Him, not from a legalistic relationship.
Remember Jesus will say to those on that day " depart from me, I never knew you". Matthew 7:23.
Yet they will say to the Lord We obey you!
The reason why Jesus says this ( one can read in Matthew chapter 6 and 7), is many has unforgiveness in their heart for mother, father, brother, and sister.
They hate and cover it up with the good they do( so they think). God wants us all to let HIM deal with this,
But we would not.
Many do great works yet still, God knows our heart Intimately. This is what Jesus is saying to the Pharisees who shout to the people OBEY the lAW!
they hid and played a good game but Jesus was not fooled. They asked him about divorce and other parts of the Law NOT just any law but the very Law God gave to Moses, like, " Thou shall not commit adultery ".
Notices Jesus Knows their thoughts and addresses all the Pharisees concerns about Obeying God and the Law with the issue of their heart?
Jesus knew they were adulterers in heart, murders, liars, and idolaters. Yet before men, they wanted to be seen as OBEYING the LAW.
Jesus called them Hypocrites! and said "woe to you Hypocrites" in Matthew 23.
Many people are good at keeping the law before men but have the issue of the heart that will send them right to hell.
They are perverted, liars, idolaters, fornicators, murderers, etc...
Yet they tithe, go to church, work in the community, never even had a speeding ticket but have no relationship with God.
Jesus said IF you love me Obey me, Love must be the reason why because Love is of God. How do I know the work I do is really Love to God and loving God?
it is so simple many theologians have missed it.
Thankfully it is the Lord Jesus who is speaking about in Luke chapter seven starting at verse thirty-six.
Jesus is speaking to those who claim to observe the law flawlessly the Pharisees:
Then a sinner comes in and begins to wash the feet of Jesus with tears. This sinner anointed His feet with the most costly thing this sinner had. The leader of the law was shocked because they too remember all this sinner has done.
Rember Jesus said "IF you love me, obey me" and the question I"asked " how do I know the work I do is really love to God and loving God? "
here is how you can know By your forgiveness you forgive others as you have been forgiven. AS Love love others as you have been shown, love. Forgiveness and love are hands in hand they will be the motivating factor that causes one to DO for others.
IT was clear to Jesus the love of this "sinner' because Jesus said:
tells the story of the debt's forgiven and asked Simon, "Which of them will love him more?”
Simon answered and said, “I suppose the one whom he forgave more.” And He said to him, “You have rightly judged.”
Jesus then said:
“Therefore I say to you, the sinners' sins, which are many, are forgiven, for they loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”
WE must never forget the price Christ paid for us and remember the great debt HE paid and took unto Himself. If this has happened I can ensure you the word you do will be one of love and Jesus will accept it AS LOVE DONE IN hIS NAME FOR OTHERS.
But if you do the work of God and think you are in right standing with God because of them, remember if you were not forgiven God doesn't know you nor does HE remember your work.
Yes God most certainly wants us to Obey HIm amen.
However, God wants us to obey Him out of love for Him, not from a legalistic relationship.
Remember Jesus will say to those on that day " depart from me, I never knew you". Matthew 7:23.
Yet they will say to the Lord We obey you!
The reason why Jesus says this ( one can read in Matthew chapter 6 and 7), is many has unforgiveness in their heart for mother, father, brother, and sister.
They hate and cover it up with the good they do( so they think). God wants us all to let HIM deal with this,
But we would not.
Many do great works yet still, God knows our heart Intimately. This is what Jesus is saying to the Pharisees who shout to the people OBEY the lAW!
they hid and played a good game but Jesus was not fooled. They asked him about divorce and other parts of the Law NOT just any law but the very Law God gave to Moses, like, " Thou shall not commit adultery ".
Notices Jesus Knows their thoughts and addresses all the Pharisees concerns about Obeying God and the Law with the issue of their heart?
Jesus knew they were adulterers in heart, murders, liars, and idolaters. Yet before men, they wanted to be seen as OBEYING the LAW.
Jesus called them Hypocrites! and said "woe to you Hypocrites" in Matthew 23.
Many people are good at keeping the law before men but have the issue of the heart that will send them right to hell.
They are perverted, liars, idolaters, fornicators, murderers, etc...
Yet they tithe, go to church, work in the community, never even had a speeding ticket but have no relationship with God.
Jesus said IF you love me Obey me, Love must be the reason why because Love is of God. How do I know the work I do is really Love to God and loving God?
it is so simple many theologians have missed it.
Thankfully it is the Lord Jesus who is speaking about in Luke chapter seven starting at verse thirty-six.
Jesus is speaking to those who claim to observe the law flawlessly the Pharisees:
Then a sinner comes in and begins to wash the feet of Jesus with tears. This sinner anointed His feet with the most costly thing this sinner had. The leader of the law was shocked because they too remember all this sinner has done.
Rember Jesus said "IF you love me, obey me" and the question I"asked " how do I know the work I do is really love to God and loving God? "
here is how you can know By your forgiveness you forgive others as you have been forgiven. AS Love love others as you have been shown, love. Forgiveness and love are hands in hand they will be the motivating factor that causes one to DO for others.
IT was clear to Jesus the love of this "sinner' because Jesus said:
tells the story of the debt's forgiven and asked Simon, "Which of them will love him more?”
Simon answered and said, “I suppose the one whom he forgave more.” And He said to him, “You have rightly judged.”
Jesus then said:
“Therefore I say to you, the sinners' sins, which are many, are forgiven, for they loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”
WE must never forget the price Christ paid for us and remember the great debt HE paid and took unto Himself. If this has happened I can ensure you the word you do will be one of love and Jesus will accept it AS LOVE DONE IN hIS NAME FOR OTHERS.
But if you do the work of God and think you are in right standing with God because of them, remember if you were not forgiven God doesn't know you nor does HE remember your work.
