Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Read Rev 20. And see it for yourself. Why do you not understand what "King of kings, and Lord of lords" means? Or why do you not take that literally?

Are you unaware of these verses?
Rom 15:12 - And again Isaiah says, “The root of Jesse will come, even he who arises to rule the Gentiles; in him will the Gentiles hope.”
Rev 2:26-27
The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father.
Rev 12:5 - She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne
Regv 19:15-16
From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

These verses refute your notions.


OK, show me which post and which quote where I taught anything about "false Messiah's or the Antichrist".


How come you stop at v.27? Go to v.29 -30
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthwill mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

The bolded words refer to the Great Tribulation. And the red words refer to the rapture/resurrection. All at the end of the Trib,
nope
the gathering is IN HEAVEN, not earth

angels do the gathering ....NOT JESUS.

re read it.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
lol
you proved my point.
an angel is not a son of man.

angels do not wear crowns.

but yes an angel or Jesus can swing a sickle.

rev 14 has Jesus sitting on a cloud with a sickle.

think about it. No one in heaven could open the scroll. No MAN was found.
Jesus is the God man. he is son of man. No angel can possibly be connected to that...or wear a crown.
The Gathering Is On The (Earth) The Reapers Are The Angel's, Just As The Parable Clearly Explains.

Matthew 13:37-43KJV
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
I never said anything about Christ being "restricted". And the verse doesn't say that. What it DOES say is that Jesus remains in heaven until the times of restoration.

New Living Translation
For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration of all things, as God promised long ago through his holy prophets.
Berean Study Bible
Heaven must take Him in until the time comes for the restoration of all things, which God announced long ago through His holy prophets.
Amplified Bible
whom heaven must keep until the time for the [complete] restoration of all things about which God promised through the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.
Contemporary English Version
But Jesus must stay in heaven until God makes all things new, just as his holy prophets promised long ago.
Good News Translation
He must remain in heaven until the time comes for all things to be made new, as God announced through his holy prophets of long ago.
International Standard Version
He must remain in heaven until the time of universal restitution, which God announced long ago through the voice of his holy prophets.

I recognize that there are paraphrased translations here. But they simply recognize what the Greek word means; remain in heaven.


Bogus claim. Nothing of the sort. Simply recognizing what the Word says.


Please stop making up stuff. I never said "restricted" or that He "can't do anything else".

What the verse says is that Jesus will REMAIN in heaven until the times of restoration. Deal with it.


You are simply making up stuff. Stuff that I have NOT said.


Again, He was simply telling LIVING believers where they will go WHEN they die physically. This really isn't difficult to understand.

There is NOTHING in John 14:1-3 about the rapture.


You are free to come to your own conclusion. But I HAVE provided clear evidence that Jesus STAYS (not "restricted" as you imagine) in heaven until the times of the restoration.


Just more made up stuff. Quite an imagination. A "time-out". Really?? Your "interpretive" skills seem somewhat rusty.


Yeah it does. The verse SAYS He REMAINS in heaven, or that heaven KEEPS Him until the restoration of all things.

I've shown the fact.
Fact,the dead in Christ rise and are caught up into the sky before the living.

that means your entire deal is way off.

rev 14 HAS A GATHERING BY JESUS DURING THE GT.

That means you are saying in your doctrine the dead rise AFTER THE LIVING ARE GATHERED in rev 14.

Game
set
match
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Read Rev 20. And see it for yourself. Why do you not understand what "King of kings, and Lord of lords" means? Or why do you not take that literally?

Are you unaware of these verses?
Rom 15:12 - And again Isaiah says, “The root of Jesse will come, even he who arises to rule the Gentiles; in him will the Gentiles hope.”
Rev 2:26-27
The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father.
Rev 12:5 - She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne
Regv 19:15-16
From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.

These verses refute your notions.


OK, show me which post and which quote where I taught anything about "false Messiah's or the Antichrist".


How come you stop at v.27? Go to v.29 -30
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthwill mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

The bolded words refer to the Great Tribulation. And the red words refer to the rapture/resurrection. All at the end of the Trib,
lol
here is what your teachers failed to teach you;
7 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

ooooops
those pesky verses your teachers failed to mention.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
That isn't happening during the Great Tribulation. It happens after .
yeah we can all see the white horses in rev 14.

hello
Jesus RETURNS AFTER THE GT ON WHITE HORSES WITH BILLIONS OF SAINTS.

you guys just omit everything challenging your failed doctrine.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
#1: sure it makes sense. The living believers will be meeting the Lord at the Second Advent to receive their resurrection bodies, just after those who came with Him do. Actually, it makes no sense to believe Jesus comes down, resurrects/raptures believers and takes them back to heaven before the Trib WHEN THERE ARE NO VERSES THAT SAY SO.
Taken together, the whole of the Bible cannot but teach that very thing.
#2: But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.

OK, to unpack this verse, we've got to read some context. You know, for context.
7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. This refers to the Great White Judgment of Rev 20:11-15.
We cannot deny that the fiery judgment of the wicked happens 1,000 years AFTER Jesus comes as a thief in the night when the Earth is left in the ruins described in 2 Peter. The two resurrections are bookends of the 1,000 years.
#3: where do you get 1,000 yrs separating 2 resurrections?
Revelation 20:4-6 KJV plainly says this. The parenthetical statement, "This is the First Resurrection," refers to verse 4, not the beginning of verse 5.
#4: the error here is assuming that Jesus goes back to heaven at His Second Coming. Read through Rev 19 and 20. There's no way to come to such a conclusion.
Revelation is not written in chronological order, but is in Hebrew Chiastic structure. Those who try to read the book that way attempt to place a Western mindset over Hebrew mindset writings. Revelation 20 is clear that the saints "live and reign with Christ 1,000 years" which is the fulfillment of the promise Jesus gives us in John 14. Was not it customary for an Israelite man to return to his father's house and build a marriage chamber after securing an engagement, and after completion, did he not return for his bride and immediately take her back to where his father was? This was Jesus promise to us in John 14.
When Jesus comes to earth at the Second Advent, He stays on earth to set up His Millennial reign. And He stays here.
When Jesus comes as a thief, the Earth is going to look like a bazillion bombs went off - Peter says so. At the time He come as a thief, the saints are called from the grave to meet Him in the air with the living saints, while the wicked drop dead all over the planet "at the brightness of His coming" because sinners cannot stand in the sight of a Holy God - they give up the ghost. Jeremiah says they're going to lay "from one end of the Earth even to the other end of the Earth" and there they will lie for 1,000 years.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,020
1,268
113
lol
here is what your teachers failed to teach you;
7 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

ooooops
those pesky verses your teachers failed to mention.
Looks like you weren't taught that the coming of the Son of man is a second coming reference and the second coming happens AFTER the Great Tribulation has ended. You don't even realize you are proving your own position to be wrong.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Christ taught a post-trib second coming and that's when the rapture takes place.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Pre-trib rapture is not in the bible at all. It is a false and man made doctrine. Paul placed the rapture just after the resurrection of the dead in Christ which follows the second coming and Christ said the second coming comes immediately after the Great Tribulation has ended. That leaves the only timing of the rapture as post-trib.
are you aware of the fact that JESUS on a white horse with billions of saints on white horses returns to earth AFTER THE 7 YR GT??????

can you picture that?????

now try to fit that picture into the rapture verses please.

you are welcome.
your deal is impossible.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Looks like you weren't taught that the coming of the Son of man is a second coming reference and the second coming happens AFTER the Great Tribulation has ended. You don't even realize you are proving your own position to be wrong.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Christ taught a post-trib second coming and that's when the rapture takes place.
amen.

yes indeed.

take a look AT THE COMING in rev 14.

take a good look.

put your doctrine into it

i will wait.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Looks like you weren't taught that the coming of the Son of man is a second coming reference and the second coming happens AFTER the Great Tribulation has ended. You don't even realize you are proving your own position to be wrong.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Christ taught a post-trib second coming and that's when the rapture takes place.
let me help you out.
your omission is noted,as you are taught what to think.

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other lef


44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
Since scripture does not contradict itself, there are no scriptures which state all mortals are slain at the second coming leaving none to be ruled over.
Where are you placing what is said in Matthew 13:30 [24,30,39,40,49-50], said to the angels [/reapers], "gather ye FIRST the TARES"... especially since the disciples' LATER question to Jesus (in Matt24:3) was BASED ON what He had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matt13 (and His response follows in those two chpts: 24-25) ?


[pertaining to "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" (Matt24:3 / Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50)... which will be followed immediately by "the age [SINGULAR] to come" (which He had just spoken of in Matt12:32!)... and where "age [singular]" always speaks in connection with earth-time-and-history (as opposed to the phrase "the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" which speaks of "forever / eternity / endlessness / etc"<---this is NOT the phrase given in Matt12:32 ; ) but which follows "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" which He spoke to them about in Matt13, and they LATER ask Him regarding, in Matt24:3)]


Me thinks you are getting the chronology somewhat out of whack... my guess (not sure).
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


Before the flood
ahem...before judgement, Jesus returns

what does he do????

this;
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

what is the takeaway?????

this;
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
Where are you placing what is said in Matthew 13:30 [24,30,39,40,49-50], said to the angels [/reapers], "gather ye FIRST the TARES"... especially since the disciples' LATER question to Jesus (in Matt24:3) was BASED ON what He had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matt13 (and His response follows in those two chpts: 24-25) ?
[pertaining to "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" (Matt24:3 / Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50)... which will be followed immediately by "the age [SINGULAR] to come" (which He had just spoken of in Matt12:32!)... and where "age [singular]" always speaks in connection with earth-time-and-history (as opposed to the phrase "the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" which speaks of "forever / eternity / endlessness / etc"<---this is NOT the phrase given in Matt12:32 ; ) but which follows "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" which He spoke to them about in Matt13, and they LATER ask Him regarding, in Matt24:3)]
Me thinks you are getting the chronology somewhat out of whack... my guess (not sure).
...

Christ taught a post-trib second coming and that's when the rapture takes place.
So, I'm not "grasping" your viewpoint... Which comes "FIRST" at this point in time ^ ?? , given what I showed at the top (regarding when the "angels will REAP" by their "gather ye FIRST the TARES" at "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" which is immediately followed by "the age [SINGULAR] to come" [the earthly MK age (singular)] ...like I said, in my post, at top ^ )
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
113
They do exist. Christ told us that.

Since scripture does not contradict itself, there are no scriptures which state all mortals are slain at the second coming leaving none to be ruled over.

***************************
It is always a red flag when anyone begins with "There are no scriptures" to support any given issue. Below is the scripture which shows that the wicked are killed when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age:

"And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.

To strike down the nations is in reference to the all of the wicked. Those whom Jesus will rule over with an iron scepter of the nations, is not referring to the wicked, but to the saints who make it alive through the entire tribulation period. These are those will have not worshiped the beast, his image nor received his mark. They, along with the remnant of Israel, will be allowed to enter into the millennial kingdom to repopulate the earth.

"Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice to all the birds flying overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of everyone slave and free, small and great.”

"Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse.

And all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

None of the inhabitants who will have rejected Christ and who will have worshiped the beast, his image and received his mark, will be allowed to enter into the millennial kingdom, but will all be killed by that double-edged sword proceeding from the Lord's mouth. Then those birds that the angel will have gathered will gorge themselves on their flesh.

Only those righteous who make it through the entire wrath of God, will be allowed to enter into the millennial kingdom. It is these whom Jesus will rule over with an iron scepter, not the wicked.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,020
1,268
113
Here's the order of main end times events:

1. Satan starts the Great Tribulation using two beasts, ten kings, and the mark of the beast etc.
2. The Great Tribulation ends at the sounding of the 7th trump and the second coming.
3. The resurrection of the dead in Christ and the changing and rapturing the living saints up to the clouds to meet Christ and his army.
4. The larger army continues to follow Christ down to where the battle of Armageddon takes place.
5. The army gathered there is slain and the two beasts are cast into the Lake of Fire and Satan is imprisoned in the pit.
6. Christ and his immortal saints rule with a rod of iron over the unsaved nations for a thousand years.
7. After the thousand years Satan is released and go to the nations and deceives a great many to go to and surround Jerusalem.
8. Fire comes down from God the Father in heaven and those people are killed. 9. Satan is cast into the Lake of Fire.
9. The rest of the dead resurrect and are judged at the Great White Throne Judgement and are cast into the Lake of Fire.
10. The New Heavens and New Earth takes place and New Jerusalem descends from Heaven and an eternal age begins for those who are written in the Book of Life.

Everyone should already know the scriptures pertaining to those events.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
You always repeat this same error.


White horses are only used at the battle of Armageddon not at the rapture.
Revelation 19 is just one explanation of the (Second Coming) that is taught "Multiple Ways" in the scripture.