Not a Salvation Issue / Not Required for Salvation

[Godcares]

. Of course i am not saying that i have never sinned after getting saved....

Then this means that this part below which you spoke to me is also directed to you as well.

Hebrews 10: KJV
26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, {27} But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

Does not look Good for you if you having been in receipt of the Help of Jesus and you have willfully chosen not to take the way of escape from a sin since the time you have been saved...

Like i said before.. The doctrine you preach assures your own condemnation.. Because you SIN..

I am posting in opposition to the preaching that God helps saved people to stop sinning after they are saved. If God did help us to stop sinning then He would never fail and all saved Christians would live a perfect sinless life..

The problem with you is that you do not read the bible.

If you read the bible, you would have come across these bible verses

-1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

-Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

-1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

-1 Peter 5:8-10
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

-2 Corinthians 2:14
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

-Romans 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

-2 Peter 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue

-1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Like I said before, God promises to help you, but you still have choice. God can make a way of escape from temptation, but it is up to you to choose to escape. You must claim and believe on these promises. And not only that, you must pray and ask God to help you.
You must also abide in Christ, you also must put on Christ and submit to God.

-John 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

-Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

-James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

 

[throughfaith]

Now when confronted, you are playing dumb

Your not the only person I'm responding to on here my friend.

 

[throughfaith]

Then this means that this part below which you spoke to me is also directed to you as well.






The problem with you is that you do not read the bible.

If you read the bible, you would have come across these bible verses

-1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

-Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

-1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

-1 Peter 5:8-10
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

-2 Corinthians 2:14
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

-Romans 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

-2 Peter 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue

-1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Like I said before, God promises to help you, but you still have choice. God can make a way of escape from temptation, but it is up to you to choose to escape. You must claim and believe on these promises. And not only that, you must pray and ask God to help you.
You must also abide in Christ, you also must put on Christ and submit to God.

-John 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

-Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

-James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

According to how your understanding those verses your not saved yet ?

 

[Godcares]

Your not the only person I'm responding to on here my friend.

Okay, then who were you responding to?

 

[Godcares]

According to how your understanding those verses your not saved yet ?

The verses mentioned apply to those who are saved already. They were written to believers, not non-believers.
Go and read the bible

 

[throughfaith]

The verses mentioned apply to those who are saved already. They were written to believers, not non-believers.
Go and read the bible

I said in the way ' you ' understand them. If its true the way you understand them ,then naturally, your not saved yet .

 

[throughfaith]

The verses mentioned apply to those who are saved already. They were written to believers, not non-believers.
Go and read the bible

What's your understanding of ' saved ' ?

 

[Godcares]

I said in the way ' you ' understand them. If its true the way you understand them ,then naturally, your not saved yet .

How then do you understand them? And who do you believe they are applicable to?

 

[Godcares]

What's your understanding of ' saved ' ?

What is your understanding of loving God and loving Christ?

 

[throughfaith]

What is your understanding of loving God and loving Christ?

many claim to love God who are not saved . Neither Romans 10,9 or 1 cor 15 ,1-4 include ' love ' as a requirement to be saved . Its through Faith .

 

[SophieT]

What is your understanding of loving God and loving Christ?

Is the love of God a feeling or is it an attribute of His character?

Below, an excerpt from Luke 10 and remember Jesus answers the 'law expert' from what is written in the law and in such a
way that it actually describes a command and not a request. As such, it is not an emotion, but rather an action with respect to
obeying the law.

But do we have that kind of relationship with God today? or has He, by His Spirit, shed His love abroad in our hearts (reference Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, whom He has given us.) that we might love Him in return and follow Him not as a requirement for salvation, but rather as one in relationship with their God and Savior.

25One day an expert in the law stood up to test Him. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26“What is written in the Law?” Jesus replied. “How do you read it?”

27He answered, “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

28“You have answered correctly,” Jesus said. “Do this and you will live.” Luke 10

 

[Godcares]

many claim to love God who are not saved . Neither Romans 10,9 or 1 cor 15 ,1-4 include ' love ' as a requirement to be saved . Its through Faith .

It requires a confession to be saved. Getting saved is very easy. Talk is very easy.

However, to walk the walk and behave like a saved person is the real test as to whether you are child of God or not. There are many Christians who are saved, but they still behave the same way that they did before they got saved.

Furthermore, I did not say in my post that you must love God first get to be saved. Where in my in my post did I say that?

However, a person who appreciates what God has done by bringing His Son to die for them will naturally love God.
However, love requires sacrifice and is shown through action. If a person says they love God and they do not show it by their actions, then they do not love God. They are deceiving themselves.

It is impossible for an unsaved person to love God, but at the same time there are saved Christians who do not love God and do not want to change to please Him.

How do we know if a Christian loves God? We see it by his/her actions as well as a desire to change his/her behavior to please God. Professing to know God and professing that Jesus is Lord, but behaving like you are not a child of God is denying Him according to Titus.

Titus 1:16 says, “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.”

However, there are Christians, who desire to change, but do not show that they love God by their actions/works because they are struggling with sin since they have been living in sin for too long and have been saved for a short time. In other words, a person who is saved less than a year ago might not show that much through their actions that they love God because they are not used to living a holier life. However, through increased prayer, submitting to God and abiding in Christ they will eventually change little by little by God’s help as long as they do not give up.

However, there are Christians who do not want to change and do not care about pleasing God. Such Christians do not love God and some of them distort God’s grace and use it as a reason to remain in sin and to sin. Jude speaks about people like that.

Jude 1:14, says “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”

 

[Godcares]

How then do you understand them? And who do you believe they are applicable to?

@throughfaith, I noticed that you did not answer this question about the bible verses that I posted, as to whether they applicable to believers or not, or are these some of the bible verses that you choose to ignore because you do not want to change?

 

[Runningman]

I do not want to discourage you, but at the same time we cannot ignore what the bible says. The following bible verse implies that it is not easy to get saved.

1 Peter 4:18 - “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?”

And there is also Philippians 2:12 that says, “Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”

I stumbled across your post and started looking into 1 Peter 4:18 and it seems to be talking about physical deliverance from persecution as a Christian as far as I can tell.

It basically says that despite having received the Gospel, a Christian can and will go through fiery ordeals, persecution, insults, etc. The point being that if righteous people have it bad sometimes then imagine what it's like for the ungodly.

So that verse separated from all context is not about eternal spiritual salvation. It means that just because someone is righteous on Earth that they aren't guaranteed to be saved from hardships. Check 1 Peter 4:12-19 again and see if that makes sense to you.

 

[Godcares]

I stumbled across your post and started looking into 1 Peter 4:18 and it seems to be talking about physical deliverance from persecution as a Christian as far as I can tell.

It basically says that despite having received the Gospel, a Christian can and will go through fiery ordeals, persecution, insults, etc. The point being that if righteous people have it bad sometimes then imagine what it's like for the ungodly.

So that verse separated from all context is not about eternal spiritual salvation. It means that just because someone is righteous on Earth that they aren't guaranteed to be saved from hardships. Check 1 Peter 4:12-19 again and see if that makes sense to you.

Hello Runningman

When you read the verses from chapter 12 to 19, you see from the context that it speaks about suffering. However, it does not refer only to suffering because of persecution, but also suffering because of evil doing such as murder, being a thief or evildoer in verse 15. Therefore suffering as a Christian because you sin. So it speaks about two types of suffering (suffering because of persecution and suffering because of sinning).

Verse 17 speaks about judgement which first begins with believers and then those who do not believe the bible and is connected with verse 18 that speaks that the righteous “believers” who will be first to be judged are scarcely saved.

May you please read Peter again

1 Peter 4:12-19
12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

 

[MattforJesus]

I have listened to discussions between different Christians and also read different posts from CC members regarding the obedience of certain things in the bible and other members dismissing the topic and responding by saying “that this is not a salvation issue”. I am hoping that there are members who will answer the following questions for me:

1. How do you know if something in the bible is a salvation issue?
2. If something is not a salvation issue and is not required for salvation, does that mean that it does not matter to God if it is not obeyed?

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Love is the fulfilling of the law, and love is greater than faith, and we are to love in deed, works, which is charity, love in action.

We are justified by works which is works of love which is charity for without charity we are nothing, have erred from the faith, and our faith is dead because charity is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

Love can only be valid in a person's life if it is done in action, works, and not by word and tongue only.

So people that say they do not have to have works are wrong for without charity then faith does not apply.

If people belittle people, do not help the poor and needy if possible, hate anyone, offend anyone, then that is not love then no faith is applied in their life unless they repent of their wrong doing and turn from it.

Paul also said that charity does not think an evil thought, and does not rejoice in doing sin, but rejoices in abstaining from sin by the Spirit.

So if a person sins that is not love then no faith unless they repent.

And there is no excuse for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh for they crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, and show the ways of the Spirit.

Therefore they are not under the law which the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

Out of faith, hope, and charity, charity is the greatest for faith and hope are not needed in heaven the spiritual realm but love will go on forever.

Paul said without charity they are nothing, and erred from the faith.

James said without charity which he pointed out feeding and clothing people then their faith is dead.

So Paul and James say the same thing but some people argue over the two.

John said without charity the love of God does not dwell in them.

The salvation issue is love for love is the fulfilling of the law.

Anything that has to do with love is to be obeyed for love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[throughfaith]

It requires a confession to be saved. Getting saved is very easy. Talk is very easy.

However, to walk the walk and behave like a saved person is the real test as to whether you are child of God or not. There are many Christians who are saved, but they still behave the same way that they did before they got saved.

Furthermore, I did not say in my post that you must love God first get to be saved. Where in my in my post did I say that?

However, a person who appreciates what God has done by bringing His Son to die for them will naturally love God.
However, love requires sacrifice and is shown through action. If a person says they love God and they do not show it by their actions, then they do not love God. They are deceiving themselves.

It is impossible for an unsaved person to love God, but at the same time there are saved Christians who do not love God and do not want to change to please Him.

How do we know if a Christian loves God? We see it by his/her actions as well as a desire to change his/her behavior to please God. Professing to know God and professing that Jesus is Lord, but behaving like you are not a child of God is denying Him according to Titus.

Titus 1:16 says, “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.”

However, there are Christians, who desire to change, but do not show that they love God by their actions/works because they are struggling with sin since they have been living in sin for too long and have been saved for a short time. In other words, a person who is saved less than a year ago might not show that much through their actions that they love God because they are not used to living a holier life. However, through increased prayer, submitting to God and abiding in Christ they will eventually change little by little by God’s help as long as they do not give up.

However, there are Christians who do not want to change and do not care about pleasing God. Such Christians do not love God and some of them distort God’s grace and use it as a reason to remain in sin and to sin. Jude speaks about people like that.

Jude 1:14, says “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Titus 1.16 .
14Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

16They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

10¶For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:


11Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

Is this a Christian?

 

[throughfaith]

Then this means that this part below which you spoke to me is also directed to you as well.






The problem with you is that you do not read the bible.

If you read the bible, you would have come across these bible verses

-1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

-Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

-1 Corinthians 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

-1 Peter 5:8-10
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

-2 Corinthians 2:14
Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

-Romans 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

-2 Peter 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue

-1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Like I said before, God promises to help you, but you still have choice. God can make a way of escape from temptation, but it is up to you to choose to escape. You must claim and believe on these promises. And not only that, you must pray and ask God to help you.
You must also abide in Christ, you also must put on Christ and submit to God.

-John 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

-Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

-James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

You said////
The problem with you is that you do not read the bible.

If you read the bible, you would have come across these bible verses/////
This is nutty . Each verse is not an isolated teaching or a doctrine. They are in a book / letter . They have an Audience, different timeline, Different Author , different context. Each verse has other verses around it which has a context within a larger context which has a central theme . To which we ask the simple questions . Who , when, why ,what ect ? .
This is text book ' proof texting ' , where you pull random verses out of context , string them together and assume just from there face value they ' teach ' what you think they ' teach ' .
This is not a bible discussion, this is not good bible study .

All these verses are not individual statements. The context is critical. A ' scattergun of ' look at all this mountain of proof texts i think support my beliefs ' shows you don't understand how to read the bible. There is no mysterious, secret technique however on how to read the bible but what you demonstrate here is terrible. Context , context, context.

-1 John 4:4

-Philippians 4:13

-1 Corinthians 10:13

-1 Peter 5:8-10

-2 Corinthians 2:14

-Romans 8:37

-2 Peter 1:3
-1 John 5:4

-John 15:5

-Romans 13:14
-James 4:7

All of these are not a list of verses that prove what you believe. There like one of those letters where the murderer cuts individual capital letters out of the newspaper to form a message.

 

[gb9]

people like Godcares isolate verses and try to build theology around them.

just throwing out out-of-context verses and chirping about them is invalid.

 

[SophieT]

@throughfaith, I noticed that you did not answer this question about the bible verses that I posted, as to whether they applicable to believers or not, or are these some of the bible verses that you choose to ignore because you do not want to change?

funny

YOU did not answer the questions I posted to you or address the scripture along with it, so don't go acting all hoity-toity about someone else when you do the same.

And, you do it often with no apologies. You do this when your faulty theology is exposed.

But I agree with gb9 above. He described your tactics in 2 sentences.