The Millennium: An Earthly rule by Christ and his saints

[Truth7t7]

Not all the unsaved perish at the second coming. The entire purpose of the thousand years is to rule the unsaved nations and keep Satan from them. When Satan is freed, he goes after them again.

Your claim is false (Fact)

"Every Mans Work Will Be Tried By This Fire"

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

"Destroyed Them All" (Fact)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The Earth, World, And "ALL" That Dwell Therein (Fact)

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

 

[ewq1938]

Please show me in the bible.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming. The treading and smiting are happening at Armageddon but not the ruling which proves mortals will be alive after Armageddon is over. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.


A second witness to this:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the mortal unsaved nations after Christ has returned not before it.

Rev 2:27 And he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.

 

[ewq1938]

Satan can't tempt them because they are dead, The second resurrection allows Satan to tempt them for a short time before the final judgement is given.

Satan is released and goes to deceive the nations BEFORE the second resurrection takes place. Those deceived nations will be killed at Jerusalem and only after that does the second resurrection happen.

 

[Phoneman-777]

"I Agree" the veil in the temple was rent, the blood was shed upon Calvary, the Lord was buried and resurrected, he lives forever!

Any future temple and animal sacrifice will be just that, a BBQ of no value, in Abomination to the finished work on Calvary

Speaking of which, we had BBQ at work today for lunch LOL

 

[Truth7t7]

After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.

Once again, your claims are "False"

Ruling with a (Rod Of Iron) is nothing more than the lords (Destruction) of the wicked at the second coming, as a potter destroys his clay vessels.

Rod Of Iron = Tool Of Destruction

You have went a step further, you take the Lords (Rod of Iron) for (Destruction) and hand it of to Nations to supposedly rule, Real Big Smiles!

Revelation 19:15KJV
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Psalms 2:9KJV
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

 

[Phoneman-777]

He care enough to state Matthew 15:24 and Matthew 10:5.

What are you going to say to Abraham when he reminds you that while you grace-saved Dispensationalists had the luxury of sliding into heaven on roller skates, "real OT men" like him had to work for it by their rough and calloused hands and by the sweat of their brow, killing lambs and obeying all those commandments and passing on those mouth-watering baby back ribs?

 

[pottersclay]

There is one war seen in parallel teachings, the book of Revelation is seen in parallel teachings of same events, not chronological as many falsely teach.

There will be no Millennial Kingdom on this earth, it will be dissolved by the Lords fire at the second coming

Count how many nation's are mentioned.

Well the book of revelation says there is a millennium so guess who's in error?
Jesus comes back to save Israel.
The end of the appointed times are the feast of Tabernacles it is when God dwells with his people.
The appointed times are followed beginning with the birth of the Christ throughout his ministry his death and resurrection.
It continues after his Ascension and picks up again in the book of revelation in order.
God has set these appointed times because they are God's feast days.
Revelation has very little to do with the N/T saints. They are not found after chapter 4.
God said that all the nation's will rise up against Israel. Now find the difference in the count.

 

[Guojing]

What are you going to say to Abraham when he reminds you that while you Dispensationalists had the luxury of sliding into heaven on roller skates, REAL MEN like him had to work for it by the sweat of their brow killing lambs and obeying all those commandments and passing on those mouth-watering baby back ribs?

I don't know, I only stated for you Jesus's own words that went against the doctrine you held, that "Jesus doesn't care about labels"

 

[pottersclay]

Once again, your claims are "False"

Ruling with a (Rod Of Iron) is nothing more than the lords (Destruction) of the wicked at the second coming, as a potter destroys his clay vessels.

Rod Of Iron = Tool Of Destruction

You have went a step further, you take the Lords (Rod of Iron) for (Destruction) and hand it of to Nations to supposedly rule, Real Big Smiles!

Revelation 19:15KJV
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Psalms 2:9KJV
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Wouldn't one say it's hard to rule when your being destroyed.

To destroy the nation's yup....but to rule the people.

 

[Truth7t7]

Well the book of revelation says there is a millennium so guess who's in error?

Perhaps you can help me find the things claimed, by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist), A 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Is A Man Made Fairy Tale (Fact)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time (Fact)

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I don't know, I only stated for you Jesus's own words that went against the doctrine you held, that "Jesus doesn't care about labels"

Don't worry, he's not going to ask you that because EVERYONE there is going to be there by virtue of grace through faith. Abraham showed his faith in the coming Messiah by his works and Christians show their faith in the Messiah Who came by the same, according to the harmonious testimonies of Paul and James, right or wrong?

 

[Guojing]

Don't worry, he's not going to ask you that because EVERYONE there is going to be there by virtue of grace through faith. Abraham showed his faith in the coming Messiah by his works and Christians show their faith in the Messiah Who came by the same, according to the harmonious testimonies of Paul and James, right or wrong?

If you want to believe that Abraham showed his faith by his works, you could refer to the following works he has done.

1. Leaving the land where he came from and go to the new land that God commanded him to. (Genesis 12, Hebrews 11:8)
2. Undergoing physical circumcision (Genesis 17)
3. Sacrificing Isaac. (Hebrews 11:17, James 2)

So from those perspectives, you might be correct.

 

[Phoneman-777]

If you want to believe that Abraham showed his faith by his works, you could refer to the following works he has done.

1. Leaving the land where he came from and go to the new land that God commanded him to. (Genesis 12, Hebrews 11:8)
2. Undergoing physical circumcision (Genesis 17)
3. Sacrificing Isaac. (Hebrews 11:17, James 2)

So from those perspectives, you might be correct.

He was def "Father of the Faithful", not the "Abba of the Human Achievers"

 

[Guojing]

He was def "Father of the Faithful", not the "Abba of the Human Achievers"

Yes he is the father of the circumcised, as well as the uncircumcised.

 

[TMS]

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming. The treading and smiting are happening at Armageddon but not the ruling which proves mortals will be alive after Armageddon is over. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.

A second witness to this:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:
.

Rev is not chronological. More of a Chiastic structure. and it repeats itself, in different places.
so that statement is not true,.... "Everything we read of next comes after the second coming"...
Jesus rules presently and will rule in the future, He rules when the plagues fall and when He come in His glory, He rules for the 1000 years and rules when He destroys the wicked at the end. He also rules for eternity, present and future. He rules with truth that cuts to the heart, and rules with destruction, and all the verses just show that Jesus rules all that is happening and will happen.

you ssaid "Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming."

a few presumptions there.

But if it is after the second coming, the rod of iron is a tool describing how Jesus is to rule the wicked at the end of the 1000 years, A tool that shatters and destroys them.

 

[Truth7t7]

Rev is not chronological. More of a Chiastic structure. and it repeats itself, in different places.
so that statement is not true,.... "Everything we read of next comes after the second coming"...
Jesus rules presently and will rule in the future, He rules when the plagues fall and when He come in His glory, He rules for the 1000 years and rules when He destroys the wicked at the end. He also rules for eternity, present and future. He rules with truth that cuts to the heart, and rules with destruction, and all the verses just show that Jesus rules all that is happening and will happen.

you ssaid "Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming."

a few presumptions there.

But if it is after the second coming, the rod of iron is a tool describing how Jesus is to rule the wicked at the end of the 1000 years, A tool that shatters and destroys them.

Where Is Your Claimed, 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On Earth Found In Scripture?

Perhaps you can help me find the things claimed, by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist), A 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Is A Man Made Fairy Tale (Fact)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time (Fact)

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[TMS]

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Isa 11:4 .... and He shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Psa 68:2 ..... as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

If you are not saved you will die in the presence of Gods Glory. and you will not get a second chance.

 

[TMS]

Where Is Your Claimed, 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On Earth Found In Scripture?

one question at a time, sorry... lol

i don't believe it is on Earth. I'm showing from the Bible that it will be in Heaven.

“The slain of the Lord shall be from one end of the earth even to the other end of the earth. They shall not be lamented, or gathered, or buried; they shall become refuse on the ground” (Jeremiah 25:33).
“I beheld, and indeed there was no man” (Jeremiah 4:25).

When Jesus come all will die that are not saved.
“I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. ... And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years” (Revelation 20:4).
“Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? ... Do you not know that we shall judge angels?” (1 Corinthians 6:2, 3).

 

[ewq1938]

you ssaid "Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming."

a few presumptions there.

Zero presumptions. I checked the verb tenses. The rule does not happen at Armageddon because it is a future rule after Armageddon is completed.

 

[TMS]

The Above Claims (Don't Exist), A 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Is A Man Made Fairy Tale (Fact)

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I agree that the earthly 1000 years is false. but the Time aspect is another subject, if it is 1 second or 1000 years, it isn't salvational as long as we are part of the group that are saved.

The Chain and the bottomless pit ..... The word for “bottomless pit” in the original Greek is “abussos,” or abyss. That same word is used in Genesis 1:2 in the Greek version of the Old Testament in connection with the creation of the earth, but there it is translated “deep.” “The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep.” The words “deep,” “bottomless pit,” and “abyss” here refer to the same thing—the earth in its totally dark, disorganized form before God made order of it. Jeremiah, in describing this earth during the 1,000 years, used virtually the same terms as these in Genesis 1:2: “without form, and void,” “no light,” “no man,” and “black” (Jeremiah 4:23, 25, 28). So the battered, dark earth with no people alive will be called the bottomless pit, or abyss, during the 1,000 years, just as it was in the beginning before Creation was completed. Also, Isaiah 24:22 speaks of Satan and his angels during the 1,000 years as “gathered in the pit” and “shut up in the prison.”

The chain is symbolic—a chain of circumstances. A super-natural being cannot be confined with a literal chain. Satan is “tied down” because he has no people to deceive. The unsaved are all dead and the saved are all in heaven. The Lord confines the devil to this earth so he cannot roam the universe hoping to find someone to deceive. Forcing the devil to stay on the earth, alone with his demons for a thousand years with no one to deceive, will be for him the most galling chain ever forged.