Jesus and Paul -two different gospels?

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T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#201
Aug 4, 2020
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#201
phil36 said:
So be honest what was the content of Jesus' gospel? As you don't answer you just make very vague statements. Not very honest is it.

But the good thing is you won't be able to hide behind the vague threads/posts you make anymore as everyone now knows ;)

This thread has really served its purpose now.. Have a good evening through faith.



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2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

2 Peter 3:16
As he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
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I've had Jehovah witnesses , Mormons, Catholics, SDA ,all quote those same verses out of context also . Small world. You have had two other brothers on here equally trying to help to show the errors that are being made and I'd suggest taking a moment to chase down all those scriptures and arguments thats been given on this thread . Not to take our word but to challenge your presuppositions .
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#202
#202
John146 said:
False gospel? Abraham’s bosom is eternal salvation?

Here’s an OT example.

Luke 1
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Why were they righteous? Because they were blameless in walking in the commandments and ordinances of the law.
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Abraham was found by faith not by faith plus works
yes a false gospel
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#203
#203
John146 said:
And yet, they did not have the righteousness of Jesus Christ. That can only come through believing the gospel of Christ.
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Abraham believed gif and it was accounted to him as righteousness.

It was nit his own it was Christ’s. Because Christ would take his sin
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#204
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#204
phil36 said:
The problem you have is you miss the part were Paul says that these other gospels are anathema.

There is only one Gospel Jesus and Paul fully agree. If Jesus taught a different gospel than Paul you are saying Jesus teaching is Anathema.
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No where does it say there is only one Gospel. People are preaching another Gospel if its different to the one Paul delivered and to the one they recieved . Thats all He is saying. Then we check which gospel THEY would have recieved . Its the same today . If someone comes and says that luke 9.6 is the Gospel for today than that's another gospel than the one we recieved . Wrong Gospel at the wrong time saves no one .
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#206
#206
John146 said:
Yet he was not justified until he offered up Isaac. Abraham is a type but not identical to what we enjoy.
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Nope he was justified the moment he had faith
romans 4 makes this clear
again you are teaching a false gospel. Good day sir
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#208
Jan 13, 2016
17,128
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#208
eternally-gratefull said:
Nope he was justified the moment he had faith
romans 4 makes this clear
again you are teaching a false gospel. Good day sir
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He was declared righteous in chapter 15, yet he was justified in chapter 22.

James 2
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

We are declared righteous and justified the moment we believe the gospel of Christ. How? Because we are justified by the faith of Christ.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
 
true_believer

true_believer

Well-known member
#209
Sep 24, 2020
940
360
63
#209
phil36 said:
Through various discussions on the board here. It seems there is a view that there are two gospels.


Basically it says that Jesus taught a different gospel than that of Paul. Are there two gospels? One that Jesus taught then a different one that Paul taught?
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Recently a heard a pastor express the ideal of the two gospels. But he is an advocate for Swedenborgianism which is a questionable doctrine.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#210
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#210
phil36 said:
So be honest what was the content of Jesus' gospel? As you don't answer you just make very vague statements. Not very honest is it.

But the good thing is you won't be able to hide behind the vague threads/posts you make anymore as everyone now knows ;)

This thread has really served its purpose now.. Have a good evening through faith.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------

2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

2 Peter 3:16
As he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
Click to expand...
Jesus 'good news 'was precisely what he said it was . No commentary needed
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#211
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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#211
throughfaith said:
If you've learned to read the bible and how to understand it from outside the scriptures, chances are this will put you at a disadvantage. Even if you've learned how from one of those ' Giants of the faith ' of old , seminary ,or a website.
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Wasn't raised in church or by Christians. I just picked up the Bible one day and just started reading it. Get to know me and you'll find I don't follow denominations, a particular creed, or preacher.

I believe what the Bible says. I'm telling you that the Bible doesn't say everything. A recent example is that Paul doesn't use parables like Jesus did. There's no verse that says "Paul doesn't use parables like Jesus did." But there doesn't need to be because when you read Paul's writings it's obvious.

The Bible says what we need to known for salvation. It's basically have faith in Christ and let the Holy Spirit take care of the rest. Seek first the kingdom of God and the rest will fall into place. The end.

The rest is just there for our instruction, up building, teaching, correction, and general benefit as people of God.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#212
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#212
phil36 said:
Through various discussions on the board here. It seems there is a view that there are two gospels.


Basically it says that Jesus taught a different gospel than that of Paul. Are there two gospels? One that Jesus taught then a different one that Paul taught?
Click to expand...
Well I wouldn't say they were different gospels but to me they were different. To me it seems as if Pail preches an extension or more in depth gospel that Jesus taught, many of what Jesus taught were not obvious he often spoke in parables they were deep teachings but kind of hidden Oaul teaches the same things but from a very in depth manner and easy to understand
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#213
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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113
#213
Runningman said:
Wasn't raised in church or by Christians. I just picked up the Bible one day and just started reading it. Get to know me and you'll find I don't follow denominations, a particular creed, or preacher.

I believe what the Bible says. I'm telling you that the Bible doesn't say everything. A recent example is that Paul doesn't use parables like Jesus did. There's no verse that says "Paul doesn't use parables like Jesus did." But there doesn't need to be because when you read Paul's writings it's obvious.

The Bible says what we need to known for salvation. It's basically have faith in Christ and let the Holy Spirit take care of the rest. Seek first the kingdom of God and the rest will fall into place. The end.

The rest is just there for our instruction, up building, teaching, correction, and general benefit as people of God.
Click to expand...
The bible SAYS why Jesus spoke in parables . Matt 13,13 . Jesus explains the Parables .
Paul has no reason to speak in parables.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#214
Jan 12, 2019
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#214
phil36 said:
Apparently Paul and all of scripture disagrees with your assessment.

For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, so that the promises made to the patriarchs might be confirmed 9 and, moreover, that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written:

“Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles;
I will sing the praises of your name.”
10 Again, it says,

“Rejoice, you Gentiles, with his people.”
11 And again,

“Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles;
let all the peoples extol him.”
12 And again, Isaiah says,

“The Root of Jesse will spring up,
one who will arise to rule over the nations;
in him the Gentiles will hope.”
13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
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You are avoiding what Jesus explicitly stated in Matthew 15:24.

Under OT prophecy, the gentiles were to be saved thru the rise of Israel (Genesis 12:3, Zechariah 8). So Jesus was correct there, especially when he told the woman, in the Mark's account, Mark 7

27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.

Under OT prophecy, Israel must be filled first, before gentiles could be blessed.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#216
Jan 12, 2019
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#216
kaylagrl said:
Yes, which is what Christ will do. So we could say they were looking toward Christ and beyond. :)
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Let us read the Bible literally and believe what it says, without trying to read it thru the CT lens okay?

If you do, this is what they said about the coming Messiah

Gabriel
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Zechariah
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Question
Any indication, anywhere in the those words, of anyone of them looking forward to Jesus on the cross?

Even after Christ resurrected and was about to go back to heaven, do you realized what the final question the 11 asked of him in Acts 1:6, before he ascended?

Was it, "Lord, are all of us really righteous now that you have died and rose again?" or was it a question about the coming kingdom to Israel?

Again, read the bible literally and you will be surprised how it does not support covenant theology.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#217
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#217
John146 said:
False gospel? Abraham’s bosom is eternal salvation?

Here’s an OT example.

Luke 1
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Why were they righteous? Because they were blameless in walking in the commandments and ordinances of the law.
Click to expand...
https://christianchat.com/threads/jesus-and-paul-two-different-gospels.197390/post-4490416
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#218
#218
John146 said:
If he had the righteousness of Jesus Christ, he would have gone to heaven upon death.
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If he did NT have the righteousness of christ

hr will go to hell where he deserves.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#219
#219
John146 said:
He was declared righteous in chapter 15, yet he was justified in chapter 22.

James 2
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

We are declared righteous and justified the moment we believe the gospel of Christ. How? Because we are justified by the faith of Christ.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Click to expand...
You destroy the context of James, make it co trading paul in Romans, and basically continue to preach a works based gospel

again good day sir
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#220
#220
true_believer said:
Recently a heard a pastor express the ideal of the two gospels. But he is an advocate for Swedenborgianism which is a questionable doctrine.
Click to expand...
Wow never heard of this
 
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