The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues
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In part it is. But HOW can they get that recognition is also in there. Anyone who thinks they can rely on their own ability to discern will eventually be led astray. The only way to discern truth that LOOKS like it is wrong, difficult, blasphemous, etc is to take that thing to prayer until God himself opens it up. It's not by hanging around the person, discussing it with friends, etc. It's by seeking God as if he only can open it to you... which is the truth (as Jesus said to Peter when Peter recognized WHO Jesus is, saying "flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.").
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Indeed that is another reason. 
So is the still-relevant need to "edify himself" (which speaking in tongues does) and "edify the church" (which prophesying does).
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
So is the still-relevant need to "edify himself" (which speaking in tongues does) and "edify the church" (which prophesying does).
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Yes, it is relevant to edify one's self, I agree. Prophecying is speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, which tongues with interpretation are too, prophecying. The edification comes in the interpretation, this is why Paul said YOu who speak in tongues pray for the interpretation. IF there is none even, then you are to pray silently because it is the mystery you are speaking or praying of.
When there is a Prophecy it is for the edification of the Church body, if there is none it is for your edification and you should be seeking as to what the Holy Spirit is trying to get your attention to.
That first paragraph is VERY well spoken. Thanks for posting it.
Your second paragraph leads me to ask "Do you think that speaking in tongues is only to be done when there is a specific annointing to do so... but not for use in regular prayer at the discretion of the pray-er?" (Some people believe it that way).
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Your second paragraph leads me to ask "Do you think that speaking in tongues is only to be done when there is a specific annointing to do so... but not for use in regular prayer at the discretion of the pray-er?" (Some people believe it that way).
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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Someone said "We don't see the world as IT is. We see the world as WE are."
Your post can be answered both by pointing out that you are judging the world through the lens of YOUR experiences and what YOU believe is possible (as if your beliefs and understanding are fully sufficient).... AND it can be answered by pointing out that you are answering as the scribes and pharisees when they likewise judged the situation by their own understanding: "They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet."
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Your post can be answered both by pointing out that you are judging the world through the lens of YOUR experiences and what YOU believe is possible (as if your beliefs and understanding are fully sufficient).... AND it can be answered by pointing out that you are answering as the scribes and pharisees when they likewise judged the situation by their own understanding: "They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet."
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
oh. sorry. Post 1,210 was supposed to be in reply to @throughfaith 's post #1,208. Thanks for pointing that out.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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What most seem to overlook is that speaking in tongues edifies the speaker simply by being performed (with or without any interpretation) because the spirit is "helping our infirmities". If you pray in tongues for a significant length of time, you will soon discover that this is so, even though you might not be able to see exactly HOW this occurs.
Also, "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifies himself" without any mention of need for interpretation before the edification occurs. But his UNDERSTANDING remains unfruitful. It is an edification of the SPIRITUAL man, not the fleshy. The fleshy man doesn't understand.
I'd want to examine each of the 3 points you stated in order to understand exactly what you mean by each, but let me point out that "understanding what is going on, or what exactly is being accomplished" is NOT a requirement before something can be edifying...and I'll prove it by scripture. John 13:5-12...(+)
When Jesus went to wash the disciples' feet, Peter resisted because he didn't understand what was going on. (this happened TWICE; once in underestimating, and the other in overestimation) Jesus did NOT give him understanding of what was being accomplished until AFTER Peter submitted to its performance. Speaking in tongues works like that... it is hope that is unseen (per Romans 8:24-27). You have to submit to its performance before you'll see HOW it edifies the speaker. THAT is one reason those who do not have speaking in tongues cannot understand or perceive its value....so they speak ignorantly against it.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Also, "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifies himself" without any mention of need for interpretation before the edification occurs. But his UNDERSTANDING remains unfruitful. It is an edification of the SPIRITUAL man, not the fleshy. The fleshy man doesn't understand.
I'd want to examine each of the 3 points you stated in order to understand exactly what you mean by each, but let me point out that "understanding what is going on, or what exactly is being accomplished" is NOT a requirement before something can be edifying...and I'll prove it by scripture. John 13:5-12...(+)
When Jesus went to wash the disciples' feet, Peter resisted because he didn't understand what was going on. (this happened TWICE; once in underestimating, and the other in overestimation) Jesus did NOT give him understanding of what was being accomplished until AFTER Peter submitted to its performance. Speaking in tongues works like that... it is hope that is unseen (per Romans 8:24-27). You have to submit to its performance before you'll see HOW it edifies the speaker. THAT is one reason those who do not have speaking in tongues cannot understand or perceive its value....so they speak ignorantly against it.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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If you'll indulge me a little, I want to pick apart something you said in this... because I think you can take it without becoming offended.
In your point #2. Jesus was a gift...and was annointed...and his words were from God. And as Jesus spoke in this manner it is written "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him." Does this fit your requirements of comforting and edifying?
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
In your point #2. Jesus was a gift...and was annointed...and his words were from God. And as Jesus spoke in this manner it is written "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him." Does this fit your requirements of comforting and edifying?
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
GOD told us the Purpose, and I Believe HIM.
Mark 16:19-20 (HCSB)
19 Then after speaking to them, the Lord Jesus was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word by the accompanying signs.
1 Corinthians 1:22 (ESV)
22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom,
1 Corinthians 14:22 (HCSB)
22 It follows that speaking in ⌊other⌋ languages is intended as a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers. But prophecy is not for unbelievers but for believers.
IT was for UNBELIVING JEWS, to convince them that the NEW TESTAMENT was as much the WORD OF GOD as the Old Testament.
Any other purpose is a counterfeit sign, and not the real McCOY, a trick of the Devil, to get you to seek signs and not wisdom.
NO I DO NOT WANT TO DISCUSS THIS, AS IT WILL ALWAYS LEAD TO AN ARGUMENT. ARGUMENTS ARE SIN.
Titus 3:9-11 (NRSV)
9 But avoid stupid controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 After a first and second admonition, have nothing more to do with anyone who causes divisions,
11 since you know that such a person is perverted and sinful, being self-condemned.
Colossians 2:4 (NRSV)
4 I am saying this so that no one may deceive you with plausible arguments.
1 Timothy 6:4-5 (HCSB)
4 he is conceited, understanding nothing, but has a sick interest in disputes and arguments over words. From these come envy, quarreling, slander, evil suspicions,
5 and constant disagreement among people whose minds are depraved and deprived of the truth, who imagine that godliness is a way to material gain.
Mark 16:19-20 (HCSB)
19 Then after speaking to them, the Lord Jesus was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word by the accompanying signs.
1 Corinthians 1:22 (ESV)
22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom,
1 Corinthians 14:22 (HCSB)
22 It follows that speaking in ⌊other⌋ languages is intended as a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers. But prophecy is not for unbelievers but for believers.
IT was for UNBELIVING JEWS, to convince them that the NEW TESTAMENT was as much the WORD OF GOD as the Old Testament.
Any other purpose is a counterfeit sign, and not the real McCOY, a trick of the Devil, to get you to seek signs and not wisdom.
NO I DO NOT WANT TO DISCUSS THIS, AS IT WILL ALWAYS LEAD TO AN ARGUMENT. ARGUMENTS ARE SIN.
Titus 3:9-11 (NRSV)
9 But avoid stupid controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 After a first and second admonition, have nothing more to do with anyone who causes divisions,
11 since you know that such a person is perverted and sinful, being self-condemned.
Colossians 2:4 (NRSV)
4 I am saying this so that no one may deceive you with plausible arguments.
1 Timothy 6:4-5 (HCSB)
4 he is conceited, understanding nothing, but has a sick interest in disputes and arguments over words. From these come envy, quarreling, slander, evil suspicions,
5 and constant disagreement among people whose minds are depraved and deprived of the truth, who imagine that godliness is a way to material gain.
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OK, can you find a scripture that says a prophet will rise out of Galilee to prove them wrong? I'm guessing you can't.
I haven't searched that one out because I know their premise was flawed. But I'm guessing they KNEW (through much study of scripture) that no scripture states that a prophet rises out of Galilee. However, they threw down a flawed challenge but they couldn't recognize that fact. I'm suggesting that's what you are doing as well. But you also can't see it.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I haven't searched that one out because I know their premise was flawed. But I'm guessing they KNEW (through much study of scripture) that no scripture states that a prophet rises out of Galilee. However, they threw down a flawed challenge but they couldn't recognize that fact. I'm suggesting that's what you are doing as well. But you also can't see it.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
there is an old school teaching among us Pentecostals/ charismatic. The word is "unction ".
It is from 1 John 2:20 KJV
"But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. The word comes from charisma in Greek.
the special endowment ("chrism") of the Holy Spirit:—anointing, unction.
IF we do not wait on the Leading of the Holy Spirit then we can be moving in the flesh.
Every gift even by God to man has been misused by man.
You are on to something when you said " You have to submit to its performance before you'll see HOW it edifies the speaker. "
That is the act of faith by believing and doing. NOw Jesus did explain to Peter why he was going to wash his feet, teaching the lesson of the servant.
Praying in the spirit is an act of faith. The Holy Spirit gave the ability you have to use the gift or not. God will not make one speak in tongues. Nor is all tongues done by the unction of the Holy Spirit I can pray and speak in tongues any time I desire to, yet, that doesn't mean I am to do so for show.
It is from 1 John 2:20 KJV
"But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. The word comes from charisma in Greek.
the special endowment ("chrism") of the Holy Spirit:—anointing, unction.
IF we do not wait on the Leading of the Holy Spirit then we can be moving in the flesh.
Every gift even by God to man has been misused by man.
You are on to something when you said " You have to submit to its performance before you'll see HOW it edifies the speaker. "
That is the act of faith by believing and doing. NOw Jesus did explain to Peter why he was going to wash his feet, teaching the lesson of the servant.
Praying in the spirit is an act of faith. The Holy Spirit gave the ability you have to use the gift or not. God will not make one speak in tongues. Nor is all tongues done by the unction of the Holy Spirit I can pray and speak in tongues any time I desire to, yet, that doesn't mean I am to do so for show.