"Rightly Dividing" 2 Timothy 2:15

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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i will give another example -- Christ is our Paschal lamb, 1 Corinthians 5:7

Exodus 12, Leviticus 23, Numbers 28 & Deuteronomy 16 aren't supposed to be "divided" away from us; they are supposed to be understood by us as speaking of Christ.
clearly no, we don't go to a physical temple and sacrifice animals for forgiveness of sin -- but why not? because Christ Himself has given Himself as our sacrifice for sin, once and for all. so it's not that Leviticus should be "
divided" from us, but that Leviticus is rightly handled and understood as speaking of Him. that's not "divided" but revealed, it's cut straight.


if Paul thought the Torah was not for believers, that the feasts were not meant for a Christian audience, what is he doing teaching from them and using them as direct examples of the gospel, as though their testimony is witness of the death burial and resurrection of Jesus? clearly he doesn't think they should be "divided!" he thinks they are given to reveal and give witness of the Son of God, just as Peter says in Acts 10:43 -- oh wow! they're preaching the same thing, not different gospels! and they're both saying that all of the OT is preaching that very same gospel!

so it's a fundamentally different approach to "accurately handle" than it is to "segmentize" scripture, and the very same apostle who tells the young man in his tutelage to "cut straight the word of truth" is himself not compartmentalizing scripture, but using all of it as though it is for us, using all of it as though it is about Christ, using all of it as though every jot and tittle of it teaches the gospel when it's properly understood, when the veil is removed.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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i will give another example -- Christ is our Paschal lamb, 1 Corinthians 5:7

Exodus 12, Leviticus 23, Numbers 28 & Deuteronomy 16 aren't supposed to be "divided" away from us; they are supposed to be understood by us as speaking of Christ.
clearly no, we don't go to a physical temple and sacrifice animals for forgiveness of sin -- but why not? because Christ Himself has given Himself as our sacrifice for sin, once and for all. so it's not that Leviticus should be "
divided" from us, but that Leviticus is rightly handled and understood as speaking of Him. that's not "divided" but revealed, it's cut straight.


if Paul thought the Torah was not for believers, that the feasts were not meant for a Christian audience, what is he doing teaching from them and using them as direct examples of the gospel, as though their testimony is witness of the death burial and resurrection of Jesus? clearly he doesn't think they should be "divided!" he thinks they are given to reveal and give witness of the Son of God, just as Peter says in Acts 10:43 -- oh wow! they're preaching the same thing, not different gospels! and they're both saying that all of the OT is preaching that very same gospel!

so it's a fundamentally different approach to "accurately handle" than it is to "segmentize" scripture, and the very same apostle who tells the young man in his tutelage to "cut straight the word of truth" is himself not compartmentalizing scripture, but using all of it as though it is for us, using all of it as though it is about Christ, using all of it as though every jot and tittle of it teaches the gospel when it's properly understood.
" if Paul thought the Torah was not for believers"
All of the bible is FOR us .
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
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My favorite defensive move is also an offensive one. I strike their defensive position to drive it off of the defensive position leaving them open to a strike, unless they can recover quickly. So rather than strike against their person I strike their sword with a hard forceful blow to drive it away from the ability to protect their person. Then follow up with a strike against the person. They are forced into wide sweeps to protect themselves while I thrust toward center mass.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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I'm not that old ,I work on building sites . I understand it . Which word do you struggle with ?
I don't. I've always been quite good at languages. I enjoy Shakespeare and that Elizabethan English is even older.
If I run across something I'm not understanding I look it up.
But we do see people here who don't understand some of the KJ text and develop false ideas because of it.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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there is much more there than simply that -- if and when we recognize it as meant for our edification by imparting knowledge of God & His Christ to us. that is 'cutting straight' -- dividing it into a 'not really for us category' is not 'cutting straight' but crooked.

why did Abram listen to his wife and try to bring about the promise through Hagar? this is speaking of sin and being a slave to it, linking to Genesis 3 and to Romans 6 simultaneously, because he joined himself to the slave woman in unbelief. it's speaking of placing our faith in the working of God vs. establishing a righteousness of our own. it's speaking of the mercy of God, because Christ appeared to her at a spring of water on the road to Shur, meaning "wall" -- she was headed to 'enclosure' but He spoke kindly to her, blessed her son, and sent her back to the friend of God, to the free woman representing the Jerusalem above and the covenant of forgiveness of sin. this is speaking to us about repentance and God's everlasting lovingkindness.

if we think this is all just for the Jew living under Moses, we'll never see these things; we won't look. it isn't right to divide the scripture into believer-relevant and not-believer-relevant sections; that's not what Paul is telling Timothy to do. he's telling him to diligently study the scripture and see it straight and true -- and what scripture is Timothy supposed to be studying? what scripture exists when Paul writes to him? the law and the writings and the prophets! the synoptic gospels! these things aren't 'for a different audience' they are exactly for the audience of Timothy and the people he shepherds: Gentile and Jewish believers in the gospel -- all these things supposedly 'divided' from NT believers are exactly the things that teach the gospel that NT believers believe in.
I think you’re not understanding me brother, probably because I’m not explaining myself well.

There are three applications of scripture: historical, doctrinal, and personal. Personal application is where most preachers fall. What I mean by doctrine is, what is the Lord teaching and commanding the audience to do.

For example, God told Jonah to go to Nineveh and cry against it. The message was one of destruction. Is that doctrine for us today? Are we to go to Nineveh and preach against Nineveh saying, “yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown”? Of course not, but we can apply it’s principles. We too are called by God to deliver a message, however, our message is a gospel message. Our message is not just for Nineveh, but to the whole world.

Rightly dividing the word of truth recognizes God’s intended audience so doctrine can be applied properly.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,675
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@Blackpowderduelist

what the guy on the right here is doing is essentially a 'krumphau' ((crooked strike)) knocking away the overhead strike at his head, and following up with a thrust to the neck/face while the guy on the left has his sword deflected off-line and he's left open in the center. i think it's kind of what you're describing.

there's another strike called in the German tradition called a 'schielhau' ((shield strike)) that can both knock away the enemy's incoming blow and slide down his blade into a thrust, all in single-time. ;)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,657
3,539
113
I think you’re not understanding me brother, probably because I’m not explaining myself well.

There are three applications of scripture: historical, doctrinal, and personal. Personal application is where most preachers fall. What I mean by doctrine is, what is the Lord teaching and commanding the audience to do.

For example, God told Jonah to go to Nineveh and cry against it. The message was one of destruction. Is that doctrine for us today? Are we to go to Nineveh and preach against Nineveh saying, “yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown”? Of course not, but we can apply it’s principles. We too are called by God to deliver a message, however, our message is a gospel message. Our message is not just for Nineveh, but to the whole world.

Rightly dividing the word of truth recognizes God’s intended audience so doctrine can be applied properly.
Thus the phrase, “the entire Bible is written FOR you, but not all of it is written TO you.”
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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What she is saying is the Bible needs to be updated according to our current language, therefore, if the word grace becomes obsolete in the English language then we need to rip that word out of the Bible and replace it with a new word.
Don't put words in my mouth you indoctrinated fool.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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I don't. I've always been quite good at languages. I enjoy Shakespeare and that Elizabethan English is even older.
If I run across something I'm not understanding I look it up.
But we do see people here who don't understand some of the KJ text and develop false ideas because of it.
I see mostly folks referring to commentaries ,or a website like 'Got questions '. They would be safer reading the kjv and if stuck on a word ,just look that word up in the dictionary ect.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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I see mostly folks referring to commentaries ,or a website like 'Got questions '. They would be safer reading the kjv and if stuck on a word ,just look that word up in the dictionary ect.
The Holy Spirit has never failed to speak through modern English. There is nothing unsafe about it.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Don't put words in my mouth you indoctrinated fool.
Biblically, a fool is one who believes there is no God.

Be careful, if you don’t rightly divide you might find yourself in danger of hell fire for calling me a fool.😉

Is the following written to the body of Christ?

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
 
Oct 19, 2020
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Be diligent to present yourself approved to God,
a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
(2 Timothy 2:15, nkjv)
It's good to see this verse from Paul, the one who clarified Grace, and also reveals here he is still a [WORKER] (not working to earn his Salvation but working to spread the Gospel of Christ) and giving us amazing insight how to defend and attack at the point of highest importance.​
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,657
3,539
113
Don't put words in my mouth you indoctrinated fool.
And I was only trying to be truthful. Is that not what you believe? If a word becomes obsolete in the current language, replace it with an updated word? Please correct me if i don’t understand what you meant.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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And I was only trying to be truthful. Is that not what you believe? If a word becomes obsolete in the current language, replace it with an updated word? Please correct me if i don’t understand what you meant.
Regarding language itself that is how both modern and KJ English came to be. Nothing to do with me personally.
Palter was dropped from the language before I was born.

Regarding Bible translations, modern English translations are not replacements of KJ words as you imply.
They are independently translated from the Greek & Hebrew texts.

You know that even while you keep up the attacks on other Christians.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
i will give another example -- Christ is our Paschal lamb, 1 Corinthians 5:7

Exodus 12, Leviticus 23, Numbers 28 & Deuteronomy 16 aren't supposed to be "divided" away from us; they are supposed to be understood by us as speaking of Christ.
clearly no, we don't go to a physical temple and sacrifice animals for forgiveness of sin -- but why not? because Christ Himself has given Himself as our sacrifice for sin, once and for all. so it's not that Leviticus should be "
divided" from us, but that Leviticus is rightly handled and understood as speaking of Him. that's not "divided" but revealed, it's cut straight.


if Paul thought the Torah was not for believers, that the feasts were not meant for a Christian audience, what is he doing teaching from them and using them as direct examples of the gospel, as though their testimony is witness of the death burial and resurrection of Jesus? clearly he doesn't think they should be "divided!" he thinks they are given to reveal and give witness of the Son of God, just as Peter says in Acts 10:43 -- oh wow! they're preaching the same thing, not different gospels! and they're both saying that all of the OT is preaching that very same gospel!

so it's a fundamentally different approach to "accurately handle" than it is to "segmentize" scripture, and the very same apostle who tells the young man in his tutelage to "cut straight the word of truth" is himself not compartmentalizing scripture, but using all of it as though it is for us, using all of it as though it is about Christ, using all of it as though every jot and tittle of it teaches the gospel when it's properly understood, when the veil is removed.
The Holy Spirit has never failed to speak through modern English. There is nothing unsafe about it.
Which word in the kjv is difficult to understand?
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,265
5,624
113
@Blackpowderduelist

what the guy on the right here is doing is essentially a 'krumphau' ((crooked strike)) knocking away the overhead strike at his head, and following up with a thrust to the neck/face while the guy on the left has his sword deflected off-line and he's left open in the center. i think it's kind of what you're describing.

there's another strike called in the German tradition called a 'schielhau' ((shield strike)) that can both knock away the enemy's incoming blow and slide down his blade into a thrust, all in single-time. ;)
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,265
5,624
113
Sadly they can not get out of their own way
I wouldn't have called John a fool if I hadn't spent so much time with him on past threads trying to defend the validity of my Bible.
I respect his right to read the KJV exclusively but I find his attitude toward others on this issue (Bible translations) unreasonable.