Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

[Runningman]

"""I am in agreement with that except I think the resurrection and rapture occur in the twinkling of an eye."""
Not what it says.
Go back and re read it.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

It says we are CHANGED in a moment (twinkling of an eye)

Matthew 13:29-30
29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The harvesting done in Revelation 14 is the coming of Christ that's like the great flood. The tares are harvested first: "one is taken and another is left" and then the wheat is gathered into Jesus' "barn."

The harvesting is done by Jesus; the actual gathering is done by an angel in Revelation 14.

Nothing is inconsistent with post-tribulation here, but the tares are harvested first which means the church (wheat) won't be raptured before the wicked are dealt with. This makes pre-tribulation logically and biblically impossible. You're putting the cart before the horse my friend.

 

[Absolutely]

Also in context of my post GT means the entire Tribulation period of seven years. I probably shouldn't be doing that because it's technically inaccurate. The GT is only 3.5 years.

Wrath is great trib.
The entire 7 years is great trib.

The mid tribs invented the separation to help push their doctrine.

The problem as I see it is that we are all thinking something different by saying " gt"

Never used to be a problem 10 years ago.

Now that speed bump is some silly " game changer"

Just my .02

 

[cv5]

What is the hang up on the verse about Noah? It is a warning? Making it clear that just like in the days of Noah the end is going to come and people will not be prepared and won't believe until they are destroyed. They will be going on with their lives and not knowing or believing that the end is near and then it will be sudden destruction.

As for Noah, he didn't get raptured away to heaven and wasn't on some pleasure cruise. He simply built the Ark through faith and rode out the storm and destruction on the Ark. Simply put he was saved by his faith.

The point of the matter is this:
The Second Coming per se occurs after tremendous signs, wrath and warning. Literally including angels flying thru the heavens.

The only surprise will be the INITIATION of the 70th week Tribulation. The Second Coming TO THE EARTH is definitely NOT coming as a thief. It is coming precisely 84 months after the AC is revealed.

 

[cv5]

Wrath is great trib.
The entire 7 years is great trib.

The mid tribs invented the separation to help push their doctrine.

The problem as I see it is that we are all thinking something different by saying " gt"

Never used to be a problem 10 years ago.

Now that speed bump is some silly " game changer"

Just my .02

Well.....the GT occurs when the peace treaty is broken........exactly 42 months after the AC is revealed.
THEN wrath is particularly focused on Israel....the people and nation.

So there is a distinction to be made.

 

[Absolutely]

Matthew 13:29-30
29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

The harvesting done in Revelation 14 is the coming of Christ that's like the great flood. The tares are harvested first: "one is taken and another is left" and then the wheat is gathered into Jesus' "barn."

The harvesting is done by Jesus; the actual gathering is done by an angel in Revelation 14.

Nothing is inconsistent with post-tribulation here, but the tares are harvested first which means the church (wheat) won't be raptured before the wicked are dealt with. This makes pre-tribulation logically and biblically impossible. You're putting the cart before the horse my friend.

The only place anyone is burned is after the mil. (Lof)

That is way down the line. Way way after the rapture.

The rapture is the bride gathered .
Nothing or nobody is burned.

I already told you there is another verse where the tares are gathered LAST....but it is just one more verses to ignore.

 

[Absolutely]

Well.....the GT occurs when the peace treaty is broken........exactly 42 months after the AC is revealed.
THEN wrath is particularly focused on Israel....the people and nation.

So there is a distinction to be made.

You mean the wrath correct?

I do agree. I just think they are both wrath and great trib. Both of them

 

[Runningman]

The only place anyone is burned is after the mil. (Lof)

That is way down the line. Way way after the rapture.

The rapture is the bride gathered .
Nothing or nobody is burned.

I already told you there is another verse where the tares are gathered LAST....but it is just one more verses to ignore.

I'll just stick with what the Bible says and you should too.

 

[Absolutely]

SC = Second Coming....
The premillennial pre-tib rapture view is unquestionably correct. Matches all of the relevant scriptures seamlessly. Any other view is pure chaos or highly imaginative.

My former pastor was amillennialist. The poor guy couldn't preach end time eschatology in any sensible manner. He didn't get it. At all.

I got saved in a a mil church.

I read my Bible and saw right away " trib such as never has been see before"

That alone took me out of a mil error.

 

[Absolutely]

I'll just stick with what the Bible says and you should too.

Yes good plan sir

 

[Absolutely]

I'll just stick with what the Bible says and you should too.

BTW

Where is that other verse where the tares are gathered last?
You know, in the bible we are sticking to.

I am sure you looked it up.

Right????

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Matthew 13:29-30
29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
[...]

Nothing is inconsistent with post-tribulation here, but the tares are harvested first which means the church (wheat) won't be raptured before the wicked are dealt with.

I do not believe "the WHEAT" is "the Church which is His body"/us.

I believe "the 144,000" are the "firstfruit" of the "WHEAT" harvest (more than one "harvest" in nature and in Scripture)... in that, Rev14:4 corresponds with the SECOND of TWO mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23 (namely, v.17... where it also states, "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" [completely disparate from how the epistles speak of "the Church which is His body"/us!])

This makes pre-tribulation logically and biblically impossible. You're putting the cart before the horse my friend.

At the time of His Second Coming to the earth, the angels (as were told) "gather ye FIRST the TARES" (this is not what times place surrounding the time of "our Rapture," and is in fact the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE as that of the circumstances surrounding "our Rapture" event and its timing, esp in relation to other things... [pointed this out in a previous post])

You're putting the cart before the horse my friend.

You're mis-applying certain Scriptures.

 

[Runningman]

BTW

Where is that other verse where the tares are gathered last?
You know, in the bible we are sticking to.

I am sure you looked it up.

Right????

"Tares gathered last" doesn't exist. I view the Bible under the belief that it doesn't contradict itself at any point.

I'm not aware of any such verses you're talking about. Just show me what you are thinking of so we can look at it.

 

[1ofthem]

Postrib rapture has Jesus returning after the flood to fetch noah.

Also has lot rescued after sodom destroyed and accompanying wisdom " God can save Lot IN SODOM...He does not have to remove him"

Yeah, he took lot out before sodom burned and I'm sure he'll take us out before the whole world melts away with fervent heat and is completely destroyed by the wrath of God. That doesn't say that we aren't going to have to withstand some bad times. I'm sure it was pretty bad and scary for Lot, when the whole town was trying to beat down his house to get to the angels. That was something he had to withstand until God came and took him out before pronouncing his judgement and wrath on the town. He didn't come and take him away 7 years before it got bad. He came and got him right at the end....right before He burned and destroyed it.

As for Noah, Jesus never came and fetched him out of the flood. By faith and doing what the Lord told him to do, Noah prepared a vessel that was able to withstand.

Isn't that what we are told to do as well... Watch and be ready...Have oil in our vessels and be prepared to stand.

 

[Runningman]

I do not believe "the WHEAT" is "the Church which is His body"/us.

I believe "the 144,000" are the "firstfruit" of the "WHEAT" harvest (more than one "harvest" in nature and in Scripture)... in that, Rev14:4 corresponds with the SECOND of TWO mentions of "firstfruit" in Lev23 (namely, v.17... where it also states, "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" [completely disparate from how the epistles speak of "the Church which is His body"/us!])



At the time of His Second Coming to the earth, the angels (as were told) "gather ye FIRST the TARES" (this is not what times place surrounding the time of "our Rapture," and is in fact the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE as that of the circumstances surrounding "our Rapture" event and its timing, esp in relation to other things... [pointed this out in a previous post])



You're mis-applying certain Scriptures.

Is the harvesting done in Matthew 13, Matthew 24, and Revelation 14 the same in your view? Yes or no. If no, then what is it talking about?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Is the harvesting done in Matthew 13, Matthew 24, and Revelation 14 the same in your view? Yes or no. If no, then what is it talking about?

Here's what I've said:

--the disciples' Q of Him in Matthew 24:3 (re: "the END [singular] of the AGE [singular]") was BASED ON what He had already spoken to them about in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50... when the angels will "REAP" ("WHEAT" harvest); so YES--SAME point in time (His Second Coming to the earth; NOT "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" timing; EVERYTHING in Matt24[&25] is what FOLLOWS "our Rapture"... Jesus is not covering the Subject of "our Rapture" ANYWHERE in His Olivet Discourse);

--the "WHEAT" is harvested by means of a "tribulum" (harvesting implement);
not so for the EARLIER harvest, which is instead harvested by means of "tossing INTO THE AIR [blowing away the chaff]"; recall what I just said in my last post about "more than one 'harvest' in nature and in Scripture"... and I'd already stated, James 1:18's "a KIND [/CERTAIN] firstfruit"... meaning, MORE THAN ONE kind of "firstfruit" (just as I've pointed out that Lev23 mentions TWO distinct "firstfruit," and that v.17 (re: the WHEAT harvest) aligns with Rev14:4 re: "the 144,000" ("TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN"<---that ain't US! [per the epistles' description of "the Church which is His body"/US]);

--I believe "the 144,000" are "firstfruit" of the "WHEAT" harvest... but not that this means "harvest = 'rapture'," NO. I do not believe "the 144,000" lift off the earth (I believe the "My barn" is the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age Israel was promised [see Matt24:29-31/Isa27:13-14 at the "GREAT trumpet" ('gathered ONE by ONE'--not how WE will be gathered, 'AS ONE'!)]... parallel many other passages speaking of that time-slot, such as "the kingdom OF THE heavenS [on the earth; the earthly MK age]"--see again Matt13:24 of that passage, plus others...);


--as far as the "grape" harvest in Rev14, I believe that is DISTINCT FROM what pertains to "the 144,000" (likely aligning more with passages such as: Isa17:6, 24:13; Jer25:30, or something... anyway, not a "rapture" in any case. = ) )



Hope that helps. = )

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Isa27:13-14

EDIT: sry, that should read: "Isa27:12-13" instead


[Matt24:29-31 / Isa27:12-13 (note "TO WHERE")... at the "GREAT trumpet" / END of trib (this is NOT "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]")]

 

[Absolutely]

Yeah, he took lot out before sodom burned and I'm sure he'll take us out before the whole world melts away with fervent heat and is completely destroyed by the wrath of God. That doesn't say that we aren't going to have to withstand some bad times. I'm sure it was pretty bad and scary for Lot, when the whole town was trying to beat down his house to get to the angels. That was something he had to withstand until God came and took him out before pronouncing his judgement and wrath on the town. He didn't come and take him away 7 years before it got bad. He came and got him right at the end....right before He burned and destroyed it.

As for Noah, Jesus never came and fetched him out of the flood. By faith and doing what the Lord told him to do, Noah prepared a vessel that was able to withstand.

Isn't that what we are told to do as well... Watch and be ready...Have oil in our vessels and be prepared to stand.

Not what I am saying.
1) there was no deliverence of noah post flood.
2) Jesus used Noah in a " PREFLOOD" dynamic.

3) postribs use noah and say " he went through the flood.

My observation is " yes he did ,over a mile into heaven,and returned post flood/ judgement"

But to say God did nothing supernatural BEFORE the flood and Noah " only built a boat" is to miss the core of the story.
Noah was delivered by the hand if God supernaturally in that God shut the door and marched all those thousands of animals into the ark without problems.

PREFLOOD/ pretrib dynamic all the way.

The trib/ flood propelled the boat into the heavens over a mile.

 

[Absolutely]

Is the harvesting done in Matthew 13, Matthew 24, and Revelation 14 the same in your view? Yes or no. If no, then what is it talking about?

Nobody could believe that.

 

[Absolutely]

"Tares gathered last" doesn't exist. I view the Bible under the belief that it doesn't contradict itself at any point.

I'm not aware of any such verses you're talking about. Just show me what you are thinking of so we can look at it.

I knew you would never look it up.

Mat 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

As usual
You have no case at all

Omit verses then tell others they are wrong.

 

[Runningman]

Here's what I've said:

--the disciples' Q of Him in Matthew 24:3 (re: "the END [singular] of the AGE [singular]") was BASED ON what He had already spoken to them about in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50... when the angels will "REAP" ("WHEAT" harvest); so YES--SAME point in time (His Second Coming to the earth; NOT "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" timing; EVERYTHING in Matt24[&25] is what FOLLOWS "our Rapture"... Jesus is not covering the Subject of "our Rapture" ANYWHERE in His Olivet Discourse);

--the "WHEAT" is harvested by means of a "tribulum" (harvesting implement);
not so for the EARLIER harvest, which is instead harvested by means of "tossing INTO THE AIR [blowing away the chaff]"; recall what I just said in my last post about "more than one 'harvest' in nature and in Scripture"... and I'd already stated, James 1:18's "a KIND [/CERTAIN] firstfruit"... meaning, MORE THAN ONE kind of "firstfruit" (just as I've pointed out that Lev23 mentions TWO distinct "firstfruit," and that v.17 (re: the WHEAT harvest) aligns with Rev14:4 re: "the 144,000" ("TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN"<---that ain't US! [per the epistles' description of "the Church which is His body"/US]);

--I believe "the 144,000" are "firstfruit" of the "WHEAT" harvest... but not that this means "harvest = 'rapture'," NO. I do not believe "the 144,000" lift off the earth (I believe the "My barn" is the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age Israel was promised [see Matt24:29-31/Isa27:13-14 at the "GREAT trumpet" ('gathered ONE by ONE'--not how WE will be gathered, 'AS ONE'!)]... parallel many other passages speaking of that time-slot, such as "the kingdom OF THE heavenS [on the earth; the earthly MK age]"--see again Matt13:24 of that passage, plus others...);


--as far as the "grape" harvest in Rev14, I believe that is DISTINCT FROM what pertains to "the 144,000" (likely aligning more with passages such as: Isa17:6, 24:13; Jer25:30, or something... anyway, not a "rapture" in any case. = ) )



Hope that helps. = )

Harvesting/gathering of tares and wheat is figuritive language used to describe a separating of two district types: the wicked and righteous.

The method of separating the tares from wheat is the rapture. God is going to lift people off the surface of the Earth for this.

People will be changed in the "twinkling of an eye" and we will be as He is. We will be transfigured into glorified bodies.

1 Corinthians 15:52-53
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

"corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." Is a reference to being transfigured from corrupt flesh to glorified spiritual body.

1 John 3:2
2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.