Jesus and Paul -two different gospels?

[TheDivineWatermark]

We then learn in Revelation that judgement doesn't occur until the second resurrection which [...]

Not so.



Here's a post I made on that, some time back...

[quoting excerpt from old post... Note the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23], and what they are PARALLEL to]

[...] speaking specifically of the verses Isaiah 24:21-22a [PARALLEL] with Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 [/ His Second Coming to the earth]"


So, ^ in Revelation 19:21a (one of the verses I pointed out) it says "and the remnant were SLAIN" (i.e. they DIE). This is what verse 22 means in Isaiah 24 where it says [see verse 22]:

Isaiah 24 -

21 In that day the LORD will punish

the host of heaven above

and the kings of the earth below. [<--COMPARE with Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (at His 2nd Coming to the earth)]

22 They will be gathered together

like prisoners in a pit.

They will be confined to a dungeon

and AFTER MANY DAYS shall they be PUNISHED"


This is distinct from what Revelation 20:11-15 says specifically, that "and death and hades delivered [/gave] up the dead" (v.13).

The "pit" is not "the lake of fire," see. (the "pit" is equivalent to "death [and/or] the grave," see).

"But the rest of the dead lived not again UNTIL,"... see [they go to or remain in the "pit" ('death and/or the grave') UNTIL... Until the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words, the one in Isaiah 24:22b ("and AFTER MANY DAYS shall they be PUNISHED"--same way that Rev19 is at an earlier time-slot than Rev20:11-15/GWTj--SAME SEQUENCE, and with a TIME-PERIOD between them!)]


____________

[and]

Re: "the pit" and "the grave" (basically meaning "death"... not that someone's BODY necessarily had to have been "buried" in the ground! [see again the word "SLAIN" in Rev19:21])

Isaiah 38:18 -

"For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth."


Ezekiel 28:8 -

"They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas."


Ezekiel 31:14 -

"[...]: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit."



[I see this also as equivalent to the phrase "cast into outer darkness" which will take place at the time of His Second Coming to the earth, in that, those to whom this phrase pertains will NOT be entering the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (aka 'the age [singular] to come') to enjoy it]


[END quoting old post]

____________



Inserting certain things into the incorrect time-slots [or, chronology] can really wreak havoc in our interpretations and understanding. = )

 

[Ahwatukee]

You are not wrong in that what saul paul preached was rather his own interpretations of the original scrolls. Any person who is objective can see that the what saul paul preached is different to what Jesus His Pre-Eminence preached.

Examples;

man shall not live by bread alone, but every word that proceeds from the mouth of GOD - Jesus His Pre-Eminence

The Just shall live by faith - saul paul

Greetings Yahcubs777,

The two that you listed up above are in essence saying the same thing. To live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, would be to have faith in the word of God. Paul is just being more direct saying that the just shall live by faith. Paul is not preaching anything different than the Lord did. Everywhere we read, scripture makes known that Paul got all of his information from the Lord, which became scripture, even Peter recognized this:

"Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

So, the scripture above states that what Paul wrote was wisdom from God and referred to his writings as scripture.

If a man keeps saying, he shall never see death.- Jesus His Pre-Eminence. Look at Enoch who never saw death and it is written that he said he pleased GOD.

Well first of all, don't jump the gun on this, because if Enoch happens to be one of the two witnesses, then during the great tribulation, He and the other witness will be killed and their bodies left on the streets of Jerusalem. Then after 3 1/2 days, they will both resurrection and ascend into heaven.

And second, in regards to not dying, are you forgetting about those believers within the church who will be alive when the resurrection takes place and who will be transformed into their immortal and glorified bodies and caught up to meet the Lord in the air? That group will not experience a physical death.

Meanwhile saul paul says:
It is appointed unto man once to die, and then the judgement.

We will all be judged. However, those who take part in the first resurrection, which takes place in stages, the second death will have no power over them. The righteous will be judged at the Bema Seat of Christ, but not for our sins, which have already been forgiven. The judgment will be for rewards for our works or loss of rewards.

We then learn in Revelation that judgement doesn't occur until the second resurrection which is when some are resurrected unto life, and other to damnation.

The judgment above is the great white throne judgment, which takes place after the millennial kingdom and will be a judgment only for the unrighteous dead throughout all of history. The church is not judged at this judgment, but will have already been previously judged.

His claim that judgement happens after death is a denial of the ressurection. For his claim that to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord denies it outright. Now people think when you die you either go to heaven or hell yet Jesus His Pre-Eminence told us an allegory.

No! You have just not understood these things! What Paul is speaking about above, is that when a believer in Christ dies, their spirit departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord. Those who have died are waiting for the resurrection from heaven-side. When the resurrection of the church takes place, the Lord will bring with Him, the spirits of those who died in Him. Their bodies will be resurrected and their spirits will be reunited with those immortal and glorified bodies. Immediately after that, those who are still alive will be transformed into their immortal and glorified bodies and will be caught up with those who just resurrected to meet the Lord in the air. At that point the entire church will be gathered in the air, where according to John 14:1-3, Jesus will then take the entire group back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us. So, once again, Paul is not saying anything different than the Lord. According to what Peter said above, anyone who distorts what Paul wrote, is against the Lord and that to their own destruction, unless of course they repent.

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Where was the evidence of judgement here? Rather, we learned both went to the same realm, the ghost world.

So, there are many things that are different. I for one adhere to the words of Jesus His Pre-Eminence above all because HE is the GOD in HIS incarnate Manifestation.

The rich man and Lazarus is look into what takes place at the time of death. The spirit departs from the body and goes to one of two places. When the OT saints died, their spirits went down into that side of comfort in Hades where Abraham and Lazarus were. In opposition, when the wicked die, their spirits descend into the torment side of Hades, just as the rich man did, in torment in flame.

After the Lord resurrected, now when a believer in Christ dies, his spirit departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord in heaven. However, when the wicked die, the still go down into the torment side of Hades, which is being filled 24/7.

Paul's teachings are the Lord's teachings. After all, that is where Paul got them from.

 

[Yahcubs777]

Greetings Yahcubs777,

The two that you listed up above are in essence saying the same thing. To live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, would be to have faith in the word of God. Paul is just being more direct saying that the just shall live by faith. Paul is not preaching anything different than the Lord did. Everywhere we read, scripture makes known that Paul got all of his information from the Lord, which became scripture, even Peter recognized this:

"Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

So, the scripture above states that what Paul wrote was wisdom from God and referred to his writings as scripture.




Well first of all, don't jump the gun on this, because if Enoch happens to be one of the two witnesses, then during the great tribulation, He and the other witness will be killed and their bodies left on the streets of Jerusalem. Then after 3 1/2 days, they will both resurrection and ascend into heaven.

And second, in regards to not dying, are you forgetting about those believers within the church who will be alive when the resurrection takes place and who will be transformed into their immortal and glorified bodies and caught up to meet the Lord in the air? That group will not experience a physical death.



We will all be judged. However, those who take part in the first resurrection, which takes place in stages, the second death will have no power over them. The righteous will be judged at the Bema Seat of Christ, but not for our sins, which have already been forgiven. The judgment will be for rewards for our works or loss of rewards.



The judgment above is the great white throne judgment, which takes place after the millennial kingdom and will be a judgment only for the unrighteous dead throughout all of history. The church is not judged at this judgment, but will have already been previously judged.



No! You have just not understood these things! What Paul is speaking about above, is that when a believer in Christ dies, their spirit departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord. Those who have died are waiting for the resurrection from heaven-side. When the resurrection of the church takes place, the Lord will bring with Him, the spirits of those who died in Him. Their bodies will be resurrected and their spirits will be reunited with those immortal and glorified bodies. Immediately after that, those who are still alive will be transformed into their immortal and glorified bodies and will be caught up with those who just resurrected to meet the Lord in the air. At that point the entire church will be gathered in the air, where according to John 14:1-3, Jesus will then take the entire group back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us. So, once again, Paul is not saying anything different than the Lord. According to what Peter said above, anyone who distorts what Paul wrote, is against the Lord and that to their own destruction, unless of course they repent.



The rich man and Lazarus is look into what takes place at the time of death. The spirit departs from the body and goes to one of two places. When the OT saints died, their spirits went down into that side of comfort in Hades where Abraham and Lazarus were. In opposition, when the wicked die, their spirits descend into the torment side of Hades, just as the rich man did, in torment in flame.

After the Lord resurrected, now when a believer in Christ dies, his spirit departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord in heaven. However, when the wicked die, the still go down into the torment side of Hades, which is being filled 24/7.

Paul's teachings are the Lord's teachings. After all, that is where Paul got them from.

No it isn't the same. Eating the WORD of GOD is NOT living by faith.

Secondly, the judgement happens at the second resurrection - not before.

Thirdly, the person as a ghost (spirit Being programmed in the soul) goes to where ghosts go to. Children of the kingdom got o Abrahams Bosom, tares go to the depths of hell - all the same ghost world.

Finally, GOD is not in the land of the dead. There is no judgement there. That is where the person who died will stay until their resurrection.

Oh and the two witnesses is the LAW, moses, and the Prophet, Elijah. Enoch is not one of them. And those that have transfigured are immortal, they can't die anymore. That passage is speaking about how the bible , the WORD of GOD personified by the two witnesses, LAW and the Prophets, lost the spirit in the word through misinterpretations, the mistransmissions that lay dead after the falling away which called for the restoration of all things by Elijah, the 7th Angel of the churches, and the Son of Man.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Some followers of Jesus-Yeshua tend to give Paul more credence than they give the Twelve.

Paul's name does not figure on any of the Twelve Foundations of New Jerusalem.. This is worthy of study and meditation for any who will.

Whenever there is scripture that lends to confusion among those who profess to believe , it is usually somet6ing credited to Paul. When this occurs with me, and I am able, I find my heart soul, and mind settled by what Jesus=Yeshua teaches directly on the given subject.

I read Paul almost daily but I am always settled by our Savior.

Hi, I'm just wondering, are you are referring to Rev 21:14?
Since Jesus personally elected Paul to replace Judas, why would his name not be included there?

Rev 21:14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
,

 

[Nehemiah6]

That passage is speaking about how the bible , the WORD of GOD personified by the two witnesses, LAW and the Prophets, lost the spirit in the word through misinterpretations, the mistransmissions that lay dead after the falling away which called for the restoration of all things by Elijah, the 7th Angel of the churches, and the Son of Man.

It looks to me that you are very inventive with your ideas, but at the same time very confused about Bible truth.

1. The Bible is still the written Word of God, and it is still quick (living) and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword.

2. Yes there are mistranslations and misinterpretations, but the pure Word of God still remains and is accessible to all.

3. Elijah will appear during the Tribulation, but the 7th angel has nothing to do with the restoration of all things. That is strictly in God's hands.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Hi, I'm just wondering, are you are referring to Rev 21:14? Since Jesus personally elected Paul to replace Judas, why would his name not be included there? Rev 21:14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Correct. Paul is very definitely one of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. The fact that he wrote over half the New Testament should be enough to convince anyone. But the naysayers always find an excuse to deny that which is indisputable.

 

[Yahcubs777]

It looks to me that you are very inventive with your ideas, but at the same time very confused about Bible truth.

1. The Bible is still the written Word of God, and it is still quick (living) and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword.

2. Yes there are mistranslations and misinterpretations, but the pure Word of God still remains and is accessible to all.

3. Elijah will appear during the Tribulation, but the 7th angel has nothing to do with the restoration of all things. That is strictly in God's hands.

Rev 10:7

It looks to me that you are very inventive with your ideas, but at the same time very confused about Bible truth.

1. The Bible is still the written Word of God, and it is still quick (living) and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword.

2. Yes there are mistranslations and misinterpretations, but the pure Word of God still remains and is accessible to all.

3. Elijah will appear during the Tribulation, but the 7th angel has nothing to do with the restoration of all things. That is strictly in God's hands.

If there are mistranslations, how can you say it's still GOD's WORD? The GOD I know is perfect and cannot make mistakes, neither can he be taken unawares. HE is all knowing. Therefore, blemishes in the Bible is what was called the leaven of the Pharisees is no longer GODs WORD.

The 3rd Elijah is the Son of Man prophesied to come, he is also the 7th Angel of the church who will finish the mystery. He will carry out the restitution of all things.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Rev 10:7


If there are mistranslations, how can you say it's still GOD's WORD? The GOD I know is perfect and cannot make mistakes, neither can he be taken unawares. HE is all knowing. Therefore, blemishes in the Bible is what was called the leaven of the Pharisees is no longer GODs WORD.

The 3rd Elijah is the Son of Man prophesied to come, he is also the 7th Angel of the church who will finish the mystery. He will carry out the restitution of all things.

Nehemiah 6 wasn't suggesting God has made mistakes. Rather the opposite.
Please don't make foolish arguments.

 

[Yahcubs777]

Nehemiah 6 wasn't suggesting God has made mistakes. Rather the opposite.
Please don't make foolish arguments.

I didn't say that either. I said when there are mistakes, or mistranslations, it's no Longer the WORD of GOD.

 

[Guojing]

Hi, I'm just wondering, are you are referring to Rev 21:14?
Since Jesus personally elected Paul to replace Judas, why would his name not be included there?

Rev 21:14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
,

How do you know Jesus wanted Paul to replace Judas?

Poor Matthias, acts 1:12-26

 

[Yahcubs777]

Not so.



Here's a post I made on that, some time back...

[quoting excerpt from old post... Note the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23], and what they are PARALLEL to]

[...] speaking specifically of the verses Isaiah 24:21-22a [PARALLEL] with Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 [/ His Second Coming to the earth]"


So, ^ in Revelation 19:21a (one of the verses I pointed out) it says "and the remnant were SLAIN" (i.e. they DIE). This is what verse 22 means in Isaiah 24 where it says [see verse 22]:

Isaiah 24 -

21 In that day the LORD will punish

the host of heaven above

and the kings of the earth below. [<--COMPARE with Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (at His 2nd Coming to the earth)]

22 They will be gathered together

like prisoners in a pit.

They will be confined to a dungeon

and AFTER MANY DAYS shall they be PUNISHED"


This is distinct from what Revelation 20:11-15 says specifically, that "and death and hades delivered [/gave] up the dead" (v.13).

The "pit" is not "the lake of fire," see. (the "pit" is equivalent to "death [and/or] the grave," see).

"But the rest of the dead lived not again UNTIL,"... see [they go to or remain in the "pit" ('death and/or the grave') UNTIL... Until the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words, the one in Isaiah 24:22b ("and AFTER MANY DAYS shall they be PUNISHED"--same way that Rev19 is at an earlier time-slot than Rev20:11-15/GWTj--SAME SEQUENCE, and with a TIME-PERIOD between them!)]


____________

[and]

Re: "the pit" and "the grave" (basically meaning "death"... not that someone's BODY necessarily had to have been "buried" in the ground! [see again the word "SLAIN" in Rev19:21])

Isaiah 38:18 -

"For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth."


Ezekiel 28:8 -

"They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas."


Ezekiel 31:14 -

"[...]: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit."



[I see this also as equivalent to the phrase "cast into outer darkness" which will take place at the time of His Second Coming to the earth, in that, those to whom this phrase pertains will NOT be entering the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (aka 'the age [singular] to come') to enjoy it]


[END quoting old post]

____________



Inserting certain things into the incorrect time-slots [or, chronology] can really wreak havoc in our interpretations and understanding. = )

Judgement is only for the children of the kingdom, since tares are destined to be cast into the lake of fire. And the judgement that takes place, happens at the second ressurection, since those who will take part in the millenial reign are either those who lived forever, those who were resurrected when Jesus His Pre-Eminence resurrected HIMSELF, and those who were resurrected in the first resurrection. They are the ones who will eat from the tree of lfe and those who inherited the new earth and will reign for 1000 years before leaving there and heading to the third heaven called Eden.

However, at the second resurrection, both children of the kingdom, and tares are resurrected. The children of the kingdom that were resurrected at the second resurrection will not partake in eating of the tree of life, and their heavenly abode will be the new earth. They did not make the third heaven, Eden. While the tares are resurrected unto damnation; that is to say, to burn in the lake of fire for all eternity.

 

[Yahcubs777]

If I've understood you . Do you see a verse in one of the Gospels more authoritative than say in the book of Romans?

For me, the words of the two witnesses: the LAW Moses, and the PROPHET Elijah, that were joined together by the Gospel of Ever Lasting Life that Jesus His Pre-Eminence preached is above all.


However, it is the WORDS of Jesus His Pre-Eminence that i rate the highest above all because HE is the GOD in HIS incarnate Manifestation. I hope ive answered your question.

 

[Ahwatukee]

No it isn't the same. Eating the WORD of GOD is NOT living by faith.

Secondly, the judgement happens at the second resurrection - not before.

This is not according to scripture. I would warn you, if you are entertaining the idea of discrediting the letters that Paul wrote, or believe or teach that he was a false apostle, then the same condemnation applies to those who would distort Paul's writings today.

"Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

In other words, if anyone is distorting what Paul wrote, it is the word of the Lord that they are distorting and that to their own destruction.

Remember, it was Jesus who intercepted Paul on the road to Damascus as His chosen apostle to the Gentiles. Paul's letters are the word of the Lord

Thirdly, the person as a ghost (spirit Being programmed in the soul) goes to where ghosts go to. Children of the kingdom got o Abrahams Bosom, tares go to the depths of hell - all the same ghost world.

Sir, you have no idea what you are talking about! scripture makes clear that at the time of death the spirit departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord, which is in heaven, not to Abrahams side in Hades. It is the spirits of the wicked that go down into Hades at the time of death. Abraham and Lazarus were in the same area that the rich man was in, which was divided by a great chasm. On the other side of that chasm was the rich man who was in torment in flame. In opposition, Abraham and Lazarus were in a place of comfort. However, as scripture makes clear, those who die in Christ, their spirits depart to be in the presence of the Lord:

"For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. So what shall I choose? I do not know. I am torn between the two. I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better indeed. But it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."

According to scripture, Jesus ascended to the right hand of God, which would be in heaven. Therefore, when our spirits depart at the time of death, they would go to be in the presence of the Lord in heaven, not in the comfort half of Hades.

Oh and the two witnesses is the LAW, moses, and the Prophet, Elijah. Enoch is not one of them.

And you know this, how? Scripture please.

The two witnesses will be two literal men, who will be killed by the beast after their 1260 days of prophesying and will resurrect 3 1/2 days later.

 

[Yahcubs777]

This is not according to scripture. I would warn you, if you are entertaining the idea of discrediting the letters that Paul wrote, or believe or teach that he was a false apostle, then the same condemnation applies to those who would distort Paul's writings today.

"Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

In other words, if anyone is distorting what Paul wrote, it is the word of the Lord that they are distorting and that to their own destruction.

Remember, it was Jesus who intercepted Paul on the road to Damascus as His chosen apostle to the Gentiles. Paul's letters are the word of the Lord



Sir, you have no idea what you are talking about! scripture makes clear that at the time of death the spirit departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord, which is in heaven, not to Abrahams side in Hades. It is the spirits of the wicked that go down into Hades at the time of death. Abraham and Lazarus were in the same area that the rich man was in, which was divided by a great chasm. On the other side of that chasm was the rich man who was in torment in flame. In opposition, Abraham and Lazarus were in a place of comfort. However, as scripture makes clear, those who die in Christ, their spirits depart to be in the presence of the Lord:

"For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. So what shall I choose? I do not know. I am torn between the two. I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better indeed. But it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."

According to scripture, Jesus ascended to the right hand of God, which would be in heaven. Therefore, when our spirits depart at the time of death, they would go to be in the presence of the Lord in heaven, not in the comfort half of Hades.



And you know this, how? Scripture please.

The two witnesses will be two literal men, who will be killed by the beast after their 1260 days of prophesying and will resurrect 3 1/2 days later.

No that is pauls teachings and it is wrong. Do you know why? Because Heaven is not a ghost world.

 

[Yahcubs777]

This is not according to scripture. I would warn you, if you are entertaining the idea of discrediting the letters that Paul wrote, or believe or teach that he was a false apostle, then the same condemnation applies to those who would distort Paul's writings today.

"Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

In other words, if anyone is distorting what Paul wrote, it is the word of the Lord that they are distorting and that to their own destruction.

Remember, it was Jesus who intercepted Paul on the road to Damascus as His chosen apostle to the Gentiles. Paul's letters are the word of the Lord



Sir, you have no idea what you are talking about! scripture makes clear that at the time of death the spirit departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord, which is in heaven, not to Abrahams side in Hades. It is the spirits of the wicked that go down into Hades at the time of death. Abraham and Lazarus were in the same area that the rich man was in, which was divided by a great chasm. On the other side of that chasm was the rich man who was in torment in flame. In opposition, Abraham and Lazarus were in a place of comfort. However, as scripture makes clear, those who die in Christ, their spirits depart to be in the presence of the Lord:

"For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. So what shall I choose? I do not know. I am torn between the two. I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better indeed. But it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."

According to scripture, Jesus ascended to the right hand of God, which would be in heaven. Therefore, when our spirits depart at the time of death, they would go to be in the presence of the Lord in heaven, not in the comfort half of Hades.



And you know this, how? Scripture please.

The two witnesses will be two literal men, who will be killed by the beast after their 1260 days of prophesying and will resurrect 3 1/2 days later.

Again you literalise gospel. Read what was written:


3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Who was it that changed the sea to blood?
Who was it that shut heavens so that it did not rain?

Moses, and Elijah.

Moses and Elijah is the Law and the Prophet.

And we know that both have already put on their wedding garment. Therefore, they cannot die anymore.

 

[Ahwatukee]

No that is pauls teachings and it is wrong. Do you know why? Because Heaven is not a ghost world.

Well, I have shown you the consequences of those who distorted Paul's writings and the they are the same today. So take heed. By believing and teaching that Paul's writings are false, you would be distorting the word of God. By your belief, you would be saying that all that Paul wrote is not scriptural, which would mean that much of the NT is false. It would mean that what Luke wrote about Paul is false. It would mean that Peter, John, James and the rest of the apostles who gave Paul the right hand of friendship, were false. It would also mean that we could not believe in what Paul wrote regarding the living being changed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Do you see the domino effect that you are causing by your claim? Regarding this issue, Paul said the following:

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse! As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be under a curse!"

"I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."

Repent of your beliefs and teachings and the Lord will forgive you. Otherwise, if you continue in them, then you will be among those who distorted Paul's writings and did so to their own destruction.

 

[Yahcubs777]

Well, I have shown you the consequences of those who distorted Paul's writings and the they are the same today. So take heed. By believing and teaching that Paul's writings are false, you would be distorting the word of God. By your belief, you would be saying that all that Paul wrote is not scriptural, which would mean that much of the NT is false. It would mean that what Luke wrote about Paul is false. It would mean that Peter, John, James and the rest of the apostles who gave Paul the right hand of friendship, were false. It would also mean that we could not believe in what Paul wrote regarding the living being changed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Do you see the domino effect that you are causing by your claim? Regarding this issue, Paul said the following:

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a curse! As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be under a curse!"

"I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."

Repent of your beliefs and teachings and the Lord will forgive you. Otherwise, if you continue in them, then you will be among those who distorted Paul's writings and did so to their own destruction.

Then i ask you, what will be your response to the 7th Angel of the Church, when he shall begin to sound, and the mystery of GOD shall be finished? What about that "Another voice from Heaven" saying, come out of her my people, that ye be not partakers in that of her sins, or that of her plagues?

Rev 10:7, Rev 18:4

 

[Ahwatukee]

Then i ask you, what will be your response to the 7th Angel of the Church, when he shall begin to sound, and the mystery of GOD shall be finished?

The sounding of the 7th trumpet/third woe, is one of plagues of wrath within the trumpet judgments, with the results being Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven. When Adam and Eve were disobedient, the authority of the earth was given to Satan, as can be concluded from the following:

"The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. If you worship me, it will all be yours."

Therefore, Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth is a part of the process of the authority of the earth reverting back from Satan to God and His Christ. This all happens in the middle of the seven years and he therefore has only 3 1/2 years before the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and is locked in and sealed into the Abyss during the Lord's thousand year reign.

What about that "Another voice from Heaven" saying, come out of her my people, that ye be not partakers in that of her sins, or that of her plagues?

The 'Her' in the scripture above, is directed at God's people who are within Babylon the great, which is the idolatrous religious system that is posing as the true church of God. The angel told John: The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth. At the time that John was receiving this information, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth. The angel also said that the seven heads of the dragon are seven hills upon which the woman sits. This would be telling us that the woman is a city that sits on seven hills. Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills. The woman is also said to be dressed in purple and scarlet, which are the exact colors worn by the bishops and cardinals of Roman Catholicism.

What does all this mean? The woman is the idolatrous religious system with her headquarters being in Rome, i.e. the Vatican. When that beast comes, the woman will ride the beast, i.e. use his authority to regain her religious control over all people. It is those who belong to God of whom God is saying "come out of her my people so that you will not share in her sins or partake of her plagues." The rest of the world, the kings and inhabitants will be committing spiritual adultery with the woman, i.e. engaging in her pagan practices and beliefs.

 

[Yahcubs777]

The sounding of the 7th trumpet/third woe, is one of plagues of wrath within the trumpet judgments, with the results being Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven. When Adam and Eve were disobedient, the authority of the earth was given to Satan, as can be concluded from the following:

"The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. If you worship me, it will all be yours."

Therefore, Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth is a part of the process of the authority of the earth reverting back from Satan to God and His Christ. This all happens in the middle of the seven years and he therefore has only 3 1/2 years before the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and is locked in and sealed into the Abyss during the Lord's thousand year reign.



The 'Her' in the scripture above, is directed at God's people who are within Babylon the great, which is the idolatrous religious system that is posing as the true church of God. The angel told John: The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth. At the time that John was receiving this information, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth. The angel also said that the seven heads of the dragon are seven hills upon which the woman sits. This would be telling us that the woman is a city that sits on seven hills. Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills. The woman is also said to be dressed in purple and scarlet, which are the exact colors worn by the bishops and cardinals of Roman Catholicism.

What does all this mean? The woman is the idolatrous religious system with her headquarters being in Rome, i.e. the Vatican. When that beast comes, the woman will ride the beast, i.e. use his authority to regain her religious control over all people. It is those who belong to God of whom God is saying "come out of her my people so that you will not share in her sins or partake of her plagues." The rest of the world, the kings and inhabitants will be committing spiritual adultery with the woman, i.e. engaging in her pagan practices and beliefs.

Rev 10
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev 18:4
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

The her, is pointing to the mother harlot.

Also, the kings of the earth are not men, they are the heads of the beast, they are cherubim just as lucifer is a cherub. There are 7 heads of the beast, Lucifer and 5 other cherubim, and one seraph - who is that old serpent from the very events of Genesis 1.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Rev 10
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev 18:4
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

The her, is pointing to the mother harlot.

Rev.10 and 18:4 have nothing to do with each other.

Also, the kings of the earth are not men, they are the heads of the beast, they are cherubim just as lucifer is a cherub. There are 7 heads of the beast, Lucifer and 5 other cherubim, and one seraph - who is that old serpent from the very events of Genesis 1.

Scriptures to back all that up, please. Otherwise it is just your word.

The seven heads were a succession of seven kings. At the time that John was receiving that information, five of those seven had come and gone. King number six was ruling as John was receiving that information. The beast is an eighth king who belongs to the seven. The ten kings are future and will rule concurrently with the beast in the future. There is nothing in scripture that states that any of the seven were angels, nor are those future ten kings.