Romans 5 verse 18

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#1
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#1
18¶Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Does any one have a verse where the free gift unto justification of life is an exclusive gift ?
The verse says the free gift is unto ALL MEN . A gift has to be recieved .
All the mentions of ' gift ' in Romans 5 is in relation to it needing to be received. This receiving is not passive but active .
Romans 5 makes clear that the free gift of justification is available and unto all . ALL can receive . Jesus reconciled ALL . ALL can believe. ALL can be saved .
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#2
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#2
I think it's a worthy question to ask.

In a sense, the offer of Salvation is exclusive by way of the "Elect." The Doctrine of the Elect is about those chosen specifically by the Lord, before the creation of the world, to receive His Holy Salvation.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 CSB - "But we ought to thank God always for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God has chosen you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and through belief in the truth."

Ephesians 1:4 KJV - "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love . . ."
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#3
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#3
2ndTimothyGroup said:
I think it's a worthy question to ask.

In a sense, the offer of Salvation is exclusive by way of the "Elect." The Doctrine of the Elect is about those chosen specifically by the Lord, before the creation of the world, to receive His Holy Salvation.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 CSB - "But we ought to thank God always for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God has chosen you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and through belief in the truth."

Ephesians 1:4 KJV - "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love . . ."
Click to expand...
' The doctrine of elect ' is just a calvinistic term . But its not of course found in the bible that way . We have the word ' elect ' ( ect ) Which when we see it in context, it simply means -to 'service ' calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28).
People were not chosen ( individually) before they existed . Again this is Calvinism. No where does it say ' chosen to be saved / to salvation . This is a belief first
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#4
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#4
throughfaith said:
' The doctrine of elect ' is just a Calvinistic term. But it's not of course found in the bible that way. We have the word ' elect ' ( ect ) Which when we see it in context, it simply means -to 'service ' calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28).
People were not chosen ( individually) before they existed. Again this is Calvinism. Nowhere does it say ' chosen to be saved / to salvation . This is a belief first
Click to expand...
Perhaps you are right. :)
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#5
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#5
The Bible says that God wills for all men to be saved. The Apostle Peter wrote, “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance” (II Peter 3:9).
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#6
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#6
The gift requires faith...

Romans 3:21-22 (KJV) But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#7
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
#7
throughfaith said:
Does any one have a verse where the free gift unto justification of life is an exclusive gift ?
Click to expand...
One does not isolate a verse and then try to understand it. In Romans 15:18 it is
stated that the gift of eternal life is offered freely to all men. But other verses make it clear that this gift is received only by those who obey the Gospel, which means repentance toward God and faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Y

Yahcubs777

Banned
#8
Feb 22, 2021
684
35
28
#8
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Perhaps you are right. :)
Click to expand...
I am not a calvinist. I need to make that clear first.

It is written, that the names of the children of the kingdom are written in the lambs book of life.

Rev 20
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Now, if there are names written from the foundation of the world, are not the children of the kingdom predestined?

It is also written, that Jesus His Pre-Eminence said our hair is numbered. This is not pointing to our hair indivisually, but he is talking to the body of Christ, meaning the hairs are the "heirs" of the kingdom. Another Example of where HE spoke to the church as the body was where HE said: What shall iot profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul?

What about this?

Romans 8
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

And this:

Jeremiah 1
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

The GOD of the Spirit of the Prophets predestines HIS children. And HIS children are known and numbered. That means there will be a time where procreation is no longer needed, as the GOD will have sent all the children of the kingdom into the earth.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#9
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#9
Nehemiah6 said:
One does not isolate a verse and then try to understand it. In Romans 15:18 it is
stated that the gift of eternal life is offered freely to all men. But other verses make it clear that this gift is received only by those who obey the Gospel, which means repentance toward God and faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
I wasn't advocating universalism. The verse is simply saying that the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. The gift has to be received
Which I think your saying also. What did you think i was saying ?
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#10
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#10
Yahcubs777 said:
I am not a Calvinist. I need to make that clear first.

It is written, that the names of the children of the kingdom are written in the lamb's book of life.

Rev 20
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Now, if there are names written from the foundation of the world, are not the children of the kingdom predestined?

It is also written, that Jesus His Pre-Eminence said our hair is numbered. This is not pointing to our hair individually, but he is talking to the body of Christ, meaning the hairs are the "heirs" of the kingdom. Another Example of where HE spoke to the church as the body was where HE said: What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul?

What about this?

Romans 8
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

And this:

Jeremiah 1
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

The GOD of the Spirit of the Prophets predestines HIS children. And HIS children are known and numbered. That means there will be a time where procreation is no longer needed, as the GOD will have sent all the children of the kingdom into the earth.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the teaching!
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#11
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#11
Yahcubs777 said:
I am not a calvinist. I need to make that clear first.

It is written, that the names of the children of the kingdom are written in the lambs book of life.

Rev 20
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 21
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Now, if there are names written from the foundation of the world, are not the children of the kingdom predestined?

It is also written, that Jesus His Pre-Eminence said our hair is numbered. This is not pointing to our hair indivisually, but he is talking to the body of Christ, meaning the hairs are the "heirs" of the kingdom. Another Example of where HE spoke to the church as the body was where HE said: What shall iot profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul?

What about this?

Romans 8
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

And this:

Jeremiah 1
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

The GOD of the Spirit of the Prophets predestines HIS children. And HIS children are known and numbered. That means there will be a time where procreation is no longer needed, as the GOD will have sent all the children of the kingdom into the earth.
Click to expand...
Names are written since FROM the foundation . We are conformed at glorification which is what Romans 8.23 says we are predestined to . No one is predestined to be converted .
 
Y

Yahcubs777

Banned
#12
Feb 22, 2021
684
35
28
#12
throughfaith said:
Names are written since FROM the foundation . We are conformed at glorification which is what Romans 8.23 says we are predestined to . No one is predestined to be converted .
Click to expand...
The names written in the lambs book of life are of the children of the kingdom. No tare's name is there. This was predestined for all the children of the kingdom only. That is why only those whose names are written in the lambs book of life will be resurrected unto life. It was written and set, it is not changed later, GOD cannot make mistakes.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#13
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#13
Yahcubs777 said:
The names written in the lambs book of life are of the children of the kingdom. No tare's name is there. This was predestined for all the children of the kingdom only. That is why only those whose names are written in the lambs book of life will be resurrected unto life. It was written and set, it is not changed later, GOD cannot make mistakes.
Click to expand...
Which verses please . You say stuff as if that's what the bible says ?
 
Y

Yahcubs777

Banned
#16
Feb 22, 2021
684
35
28
#16
throughfaith said:
Yes I believe that verse .
Click to expand...
It is true. And Jesus His Pre-Eminence also said the tares will be cast into the fire as chaff, and the wheat shall be reaped.

All the names written in the book of life are of the children of the kingdom only. And these were written from the foundation of the world.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#18
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#18
Yahcubs777 said:
It is true. And Jesus His Pre-Eminence also said the tares will be cast into the fire as chaff, and the wheat shall be reaped.

All the names written in the book of life are of the children of the kingdom only. And these were written from the foundation of the world.
Click to expand...
Yes since from the first person to today names are written in . Not before we existed. Thats Calvinism/ Arminism
 
You must log in or register to reply here.