Regarding sin, forgiveness and moral responsibility

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VickyK

VickyK

Banned
#1
Jan 15, 2021
477
81
28
#1
I am a sinner. I speak not of the inherited sin that we all share, but of the specific offenses I have committed toward my fellow man, my Earth and all its creatures, and my Most High creator. I have wronged and I would seek to be held accountable that I may repent and I be forgiven. Likewise have I been wronged, and will endeavour to hold those who have wronged me accountable that they may repent and I forgive them.

I am overwhelmed and grateful that I have the example of Jesus the Christ to humble me. For he was a perfect being whom committed no wrongs, yet freely allowed himself be persecuted and endure human suffering to save mankind.

I have been inspired to write this by a conversation with a friend. He has wronged me, yet as much as I implore him to come to a resolution with me that I may forgive him, he refuses to do so. I am upset that he would refuse to reflect upon wronging me, and saddened that he not enjoy moral responsibility. I have begged that he tell me how I have wronged him, that I may myself make amends. I implore upon him to look at the example of Christ Jesus, whom being guilty of nothing endured persecution and forgave still. I invite him to appreciate the value of humility. I can forgive him, yet I am not certain that he will repent if he does not accept that he has wronged me.

'I am not responsible for your happiness'

But you are. For we are all responsible in sharing this Earthly plane God has granted us live on. We must love our neighbour as we do ourselves. We must welcome being held accountable for our moral failings yet never tolerate cruelty being done to our person, for as much as we suffer the cruelty others do unto us, others suffer tenfold the cruelty they themselves commit. Likewise must we treat ourselves with the kindness we would treat others, and follow Christ's example of forgiveness.

Our forgiving others and our being forgiven are not permits to act with impunity. Whilst wrongdoing must be forgiven, likewise should they be penalised. Penalties, whilst causing us some temporary discomfort, arrive as blessings for they hold us accountable, and it is through this accountability that we may repent.

It is essential to our wellbeing that we not only love our neighbour as we would ourselves, but to love ourselves as we would our neighbour. You owe it to yourself and the God to whom you owe your life to endeavour to be as good to yourself as you would be others.

Forgive me if I sound prideful, and feel free to disagree with me.

God bless you. Amen.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#2
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#2
VickyK said:
I am a sinner. I speak not of the inherited sin that we all share, but of the specific offences I have committed toward my fellow man, my Earth and all its creatures, and my Most High creator. I have wronged and I would seek to be held accountable that I may repent and I be forgiven. Likewise, have I been wronged, and will endeavour to hold those who have wronged me accountable that they may repent and I forgive them.

I am overwhelmed and grateful that I have the example of Jesus the Christ to humble me. For he was a perfect being whom committed no wrongs, yet freely allowed himself be persecuted and endure human suffering to save mankind.

I have been inspired to write this by a conversation with a friend. He has wronged me, yet as much as I implore him to come to a resolution with me that I may forgive him, he refuses to do so. I am upset that he would refuse to reflect upon wronging me, and saddened that he not enjoy moral responsibility. I have begged that he tell me how I have wronged him, that I may myself make amends. I implore upon him to look at the example of Christ Jesus, whom being guilty of nothing endured persecution and forgave still. I invite him to appreciate the value of humility. I can forgive him, yet I am not certain that he will repent if he does not accept that he has wronged me.

'I am not responsible for your happiness'

But you are. For we are all responsible in sharing this Earthly plane God has granted us live on. We must love our neighbour as we do ourselves. We must welcome being held accountable for our moral failings yet never tolerate cruelty being done to our person, for as much as we suffer the cruelty others do unto us, others suffer tenfold the cruelty they themselves commit. Likewise, must we treat ourselves with the kindness we would treat others, and follow Christ's example of forgiveness.

Our forgiving others and our being forgiven are not permits to act with impunity. Whilst wrongdoing must be forgiven, likewise, should they be penalised. Penalties, whilst causing us some temporary discomfort, arrive as blessings for they hold us accountable, and it is through this accountability that we may repent.

It is essential to our wellbeing that we not only love our neighbour as we would ourselves, but to love ourselves as we would our neighbour. You owe it to yourself and the God to whom you owe your life to endeavour to be as good to yourself as you would be others.

Forgive me if I sound prideful, and feel free to disagree with me.

God bless you. Amen.
Click to expand...
You don't sound prideful at all, my friend. :)
 
T

TheIndianGirl

Guest
#5
#5
VickyK said:
I am a sinner. I speak not of the inherited sin that we all share, but of the specific offenses I have committed toward my fellow man, my Earth and all its creatures, and my Most High creator. I have wronged and I would seek to be held accountable that I may repent and I be forgiven. Likewise have I been wronged, and will endeavour to hold those who have wronged me accountable that they may repent and I forgive them.

I am overwhelmed and grateful that I have the example of Jesus the Christ to humble me. For he was a perfect being whom committed no wrongs, yet freely allowed himself be persecuted and endure human suffering to save mankind.

I have been inspired to write this by a conversation with a friend. He has wronged me, yet as much as I implore him to come to a resolution with me that I may forgive him, he refuses to do so. I am upset that he would refuse to reflect upon wronging me, and saddened that he not enjoy moral responsibility. I have begged that he tell me how I have wronged him, that I may myself make amends. I implore upon him to look at the example of Christ Jesus, whom being guilty of nothing endured persecution and forgave still. I invite him to appreciate the value of humility. I can forgive him, yet I am not certain that he will repent if he does not accept that he has wronged me.

'I am not responsible for your happiness'

But you are. For we are all responsible in sharing this Earthly plane God has granted us live on. We must love our neighbour as we do ourselves. We must welcome being held accountable for our moral failings yet never tolerate cruelty being done to our person, for as much as we suffer the cruelty others do unto us, others suffer tenfold the cruelty they themselves commit. Likewise must we treat ourselves with the kindness we would treat others, and follow Christ's example of forgiveness.

Our forgiving others and our being forgiven are not permits to act with impunity. Whilst wrongdoing must be forgiven, likewise should they be penalised. Penalties, whilst causing us some temporary discomfort, arrive as blessings for they hold us accountable, and it is through this accountability that we may repent.

It is essential to our wellbeing that we not only love our neighbour as we would ourselves, but to love ourselves as we would our neighbour. You owe it to yourself and the God to whom you owe your life to endeavour to be as good to yourself as you would be others.

Forgive me if I sound prideful, and feel free to disagree with me.

God bless you. Amen.
Click to expand...
Beautifully written.

Many believe to forgive means brushing the wrongdoing under the carpet, "forgive and forget," or that seeking justice/holding one accountable means one is being vindictive, etc. However, believing this/behaving this way may not lead to repentance which is of utmost importance. After the person has sincerely repented, though, I believe it is no longer necessary to keep bringing up the past. Not sure what the Bible says about this, but I believe it is the job of the person who committed the wrongdoing to help the victim recover/compensate (maybe not monetarily) in some way so the victim can move forward.
 
VickyK

VickyK

Banned
#6
Jan 15, 2021
477
81
28
#6
TheIndianGirl said:
Beautifully written.

Many believe to forgive means brushing the wrongdoing under the carpet, "forgive and forget," or that seeking justice/holding one accountable means one is being vindictive, etc. However, believing this/behaving this way may not lead to repentance which is of utmost importance. After the person has sincerely repented, though, I believe it is no longer necessary to keep bringing up the past. Not sure what the Bible says about this, but I believe it is the job of the person who committed the wrongdoing to help the victim recover/compensate (maybe not monetarily) in some way so the victim can move forward.
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Absolutely. 'forgive and forget' does not help anyone. If he who wronged is forgiven without first repenting he benefits nothing. His repenting is for his benefit and as much as it is he whom he wronged. Likewise the forgiving is as much to benefit the wronged party as he who wronged him.

Seeking to penalise someone is for their benefit also. We are not punished for our sins so much as by our sins.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#7
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#7
VickyK said:
I am a sinner. I speak not of the inherited sin that we all share, but of the specific offenses I have committed toward my fellow man, my Earth and all its creatures, and my Most High creator. I have wronged and I would seek to be held accountable that I may repent and I be forgiven. Likewise have I been wronged, and will endeavour to hold those who have wronged me accountable that they may repent and I forgive them.

I am overwhelmed and grateful that I have the example of Jesus the Christ to humble me. For he was a perfect being whom committed no wrongs, yet freely allowed himself be persecuted and endure human suffering to save mankind.

I have been inspired to write this by a conversation with a friend. He has wronged me, yet as much as I implore him to come to a resolution with me that I may forgive him, he refuses to do so. I am upset that he would refuse to reflect upon wronging me, and saddened that he not enjoy moral responsibility. I have begged that he tell me how I have wronged him, that I may myself make amends. I implore upon him to look at the example of Christ Jesus, whom being guilty of nothing endured persecution and forgave still. I invite him to appreciate the value of humility. I can forgive him, yet I am not certain that he will repent if he does not accept that he has wronged me.

'I am not responsible for your happiness'

But you are. For we are all responsible in sharing this Earthly plane God has granted us live on. We must love our neighbour as we do ourselves. We must welcome being held accountable for our moral failings yet never tolerate cruelty being done to our person, for as much as we suffer the cruelty others do unto us, others suffer tenfold the cruelty they themselves commit. Likewise must we treat ourselves with the kindness we would treat others, and follow Christ's example of forgiveness.

Our forgiving others and our being forgiven are not permits to act with impunity. Whilst wrongdoing must be forgiven, likewise should they be penalised. Penalties, whilst causing us some temporary discomfort, arrive as blessings for they hold us accountable, and it is through this accountability that we may repent.

It is essential to our wellbeing that we not only love our neighbour as we would ourselves, but to love ourselves as we would our neighbour. You owe it to yourself and the God to whom you owe your life to endeavour to be as good to yourself as you would be others.

Forgive me if I sound prideful, and feel free to disagree with me.

God bless you. Amen.
Click to expand...
What did you mean by ' inherited sin ' ?
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#8
#8
I'm sorry that someone has wronged you, and that you have confronted them but they refuse to repent.
I would that human relationships weren't so messy.
Have they explained why they feel what they did wasn't wrong?
 
VickyK

VickyK

Banned
#10
Jan 15, 2021
477
81
28
#10
Blackpowderduelist said:
I'm sorry that someone has wronged you, and that you have confronted them but they refuse to repent.
I would that human relationships weren't so messy.
Have they explained why they feel what they did wasn't wrong?
Click to expand...
No. They just say 'this was in the past, move on'.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#13
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#13
phil36 said:
Only a Pelagian would say that...
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Oooh the calvinist boogeyman scare tactic . Followed closely by 'you must be a universalist ' . No verse says we inherited Adams guilt . I realise in Calvinism, this is no obstacle because, Its built on what the bible doesn't say.
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#14
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#14
throughfaith said:
Oooh the calvinist boogeyman scare tactic . Followed closely by 'you must be a universalist ' . No verse says we inherited Adams guilt . I realise in Calvinism, this is no obstacle. Its built on what the bible doesn't say.
Click to expand...


You can't hide from the fact that Palagianism is heresy.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#15
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#15
phil36 said:
You can't hide from the fact that Palagianism is heresy.
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I don't start my approach to scripture with 'boogeyman fears , doctrines , concepts , philosophy traditions , confessions, 5 points , 4 points , 3 points, 2 points, 1 point calvinism , Armianism , reading endless ' giants of the faith ' books , commentary ect .
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#16
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#16
throughfaith said:
I don't start my approach to scripture with 'boogeyman fears , doctrines , concepts , philosophy traditions , confessions, 5 points , 4 points , 3 points, 2 points, 1 point calvinism , Armianism , reading endless ' giants of the faith ' books , commentary ect .
Click to expand...

Yes you've told us this already. But apparently your ''''own'''' study has led you to holding heretical beliefs. Pelagianism is heresy. Put that along with the fact you say Paul and Jesus taught different gospels - then we can come to no other conclusion that you have heretical and unbiblical beliefs.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#17
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#17
phil36 said:
Yes you've told us this already. But apparently your ''''own'''' study has led you to holding heretical beliefs. Pelagianism is heresy. Put that along with the fact you say Paul and Jesus taught different gospels - then we can come to no other conclusion that you have heretical and unbiblical beliefs.
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You have the similar skill all calvinists have , and must be trained somewhat ( perhaps subconsciously) ,and that's the art of misrepresentation and taking what people say and twisting it to fit the rivarourous narrative script . Everyone must be an Arminian or equally following a paradigm like the calvinist is . So the technique is to try map the other person as close to what he believes is a familiar heretical position.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#18
#18
phil36 said:
Yes you've told us this already. But apparently your ''''own'''' study has led you to holding heretical beliefs. Pelagianism is heresy. Put that along with the fact you say Paul and Jesus taught different gospels - then we can come to no other conclusion that you have heretical and unbiblical beliefs.
Click to expand...
In Adam all die
how one be declared dead because of Adam unless they share in his guilt?
That and his dual gospel theory has proved him to be in err no matter what group you wish to place him under
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#19
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,953
113
#19
I cannot stress enough how important it is, that as we discuss, we are kind to one another.

Let our kindness and gentleness be the distinctive mark that separates us from the rest of the world.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#20
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#20
eternally-gratefull said:
In Adam all die
how one be declared dead because of Adam unless they share in his guilt?
That and his dual gospel theory has proved him to be in err no matter what group you wish to place him under
Click to expand...
We should base our beliefs on what scripture says not conundrums , syllogism s , or " surely if my idea of this connects with what I think that and surely the conclusion must be ...."
 
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