Hypergrace Mockers
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Two reasons...
1) Definition: "Falling away" is translated from the Greek word "apostasia". This is a compound word in the "passive" voice from "Apo" (i.e. away from) and "histemi" (i.e. to stand in position); the root of which we get our English word "stasis". So the word literally means "drop away from where one once stood". One can't turn away from a position they never stood in.
2) Context: Paul explained to the Thessalonians that the "falling away" was to occur, saying "remember when I told you before..." Paul's gospel did not change from one location to the next. So if we look at Paul's farewell before leaving for Jerusalem (in Acts 20), Paul warning his disciples about maintaining the truth he taught them:
Acts 20:28-31
28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
"To draw away" is "Apospao", a compound word in the "active" voice from "Apo" (i.e. away from) and spao (i.e. to draw or pull). So the word literally means "pull something or someone away".
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Put all of this together and we have a warning that "one group will drop from their original position/standing, by being pulled away by others". And in the context of Paul's letter and gospel, he's speaking about believers. It's believers who will drop from their original position in Christ, by being pulled away by others.
There's no reason for Paul to warn believers ceaselessly - with tears for three years - about people who'd never accept the gospel. He was warning them specifically to endure and resist being drawn away from the truth...but knew prophetically that it would happen for many.
2 Thess 2:10-12
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
They who do "fall away" will have the truth...but not a love for it...but will have pleasure in unrighteousness. Paul then concludes with his same call to endure...
2 Thess 2:15-17
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
"Stand firm" is "steko", the perfect tense of "histemi" (i.e. to stand in position), providing the opposite connotation when compared to the word "apostasia". So Paul is telling believers to maintain their position in Christ. He then blesses them with the Messiah's strength to comfort them and to do good works.
1) Definition: "Falling away" is translated from the Greek word "apostasia". This is a compound word in the "passive" voice from "Apo" (i.e. away from) and "histemi" (i.e. to stand in position); the root of which we get our English word "stasis". So the word literally means "drop away from where one once stood". One can't turn away from a position they never stood in.
2) Context: Paul explained to the Thessalonians that the "falling away" was to occur, saying "remember when I told you before..." Paul's gospel did not change from one location to the next. So if we look at Paul's farewell before leaving for Jerusalem (in Acts 20), Paul warning his disciples about maintaining the truth he taught them:
Acts 20:28-31
28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
"To draw away" is "Apospao", a compound word in the "active" voice from "Apo" (i.e. away from) and spao (i.e. to draw or pull). So the word literally means "pull something or someone away".
----
Put all of this together and we have a warning that "one group will drop from their original position/standing, by being pulled away by others". And in the context of Paul's letter and gospel, he's speaking about believers. It's believers who will drop from their original position in Christ, by being pulled away by others.
There's no reason for Paul to warn believers ceaselessly - with tears for three years - about people who'd never accept the gospel. He was warning them specifically to endure and resist being drawn away from the truth...but knew prophetically that it would happen for many.
2 Thess 2:10-12
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
They who do "fall away" will have the truth...but not a love for it...but will have pleasure in unrighteousness. Paul then concludes with his same call to endure...
2 Thess 2:15-17
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
"Stand firm" is "steko", the perfect tense of "histemi" (i.e. to stand in position), providing the opposite connotation when compared to the word "apostasia". So Paul is telling believers to maintain their position in Christ. He then blesses them with the Messiah's strength to comfort them and to do good works.
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I think Paul was capable of literally saying " hey guys be careful or you will go to hell " . This would be the most important bit of information he could say . Not this squint your eye just right and pluck a verse out of its timeline , out of context and force it to say something in a round a bout way.
Well...but he is saying it. And says it in multiple places. But this is why 2 Peter 3:16 warns that it's easy to twist what Paul is saying without a foundation in the OT (you know, all those verses of the past that aren't important anymore lol). Because Paul has a way of saying things that can be hard to understand.
Think about it . The most important verse would be as clear as day . It would literally say " Here are all the things ,that if you do or do not do them you will go to hell " . There would be no ambiguity, hidden meanings, riddles, or confusion over the matter . The problem with some is they do not believe or trust the bible.
(Well The almighty does hide things on purpose, but why He does is another discussion...)
The only portion that seems/appears to be at odds with the rest of scripture (from Genesis to Revelation) is Paul's letters. That's the ONLY portion. And we just so happen to have Peter telling believers that Paul's portion can potentially be misconstrued. No other warning was given except about Paul's portion.
So I think it's worth reexamining Paul's portion to make sure we truly understand him.
Let me try this another way just to make sure I'm explaining myself well...
Recall Noah's situation: hopefully you will agree that as long as Noah stayed in the ark his safety was guaranteed. The Almighty wasn't going to let anything happen to that boat to where He'd lose Noah, his family, or the animals. They were safely in His hand. The boat can rock and Noah can stumble, but He's safely within the Almighty's protection throughout the journey.
...But Noah had a choice to stay in the ark (where safety was absolutely assured) OR to open the port (where he freed the bird) and dive out into the storm like a maniac to drown with the rest of the world.
The Almighty wasn't forcing Noah to remain in the boat.
Let's say at some point during the judgment Noah became absolutely convinced that the Almighty would never let him die no matter what he did...so much so that he actually DOVE OUT into the storm. Do you think the Almighty would've saved him? I'm completely sure Noah would've died.
His salvation from the judgment was completely assured but he STILL would've died. Why? Because leaving the protection of the ark would've been considered: (1) willful disobedience (the ark was built to protect him), and (2) pridefully tempting the Almighty based on His loving promise to Noah, no different than if the Messiah had listened to satan and cast Himself off of the high mountain just to be caught by angels. What I'm focusing on is a condition of the heart.
The GIFT of Salvation is absolutely guaranteed as long as one STAYS within the Almighty's hedge of protection. One must stay within the boundaries/walls of that gift.
The gift of salvation = the hedge of protection
...But if one CHOOSES to leave it (thinking they will be saved no matter what they do) they are choosing to reject the gift. They are choosing death. The Almighty isn't our personal umbrella boy chasing behind us to protect us wherever WE shall walk. He is the tabernacle that we're supposed to stay within.
And if we do walk, we walk where our Father, The King wants us to walks and only when He says to walk...just like the children of Israel did with the rolling tabernacle in the wilderness. They only packed up and moved when He said it was time to go, and only stopped to make camp when He stopped moving. Obedience & faithfulness.
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The Almighty isn't the Parent of spoiled brats devoid of agency and personal responsibility, Who keeps fixing their problems and saving them from troubles while they keep disrespecting and disobeying Him, abusing His love for them...like the children this world currently produces.
The only portion that seems/appears to be at odds with the rest of scripture (from Genesis to Revelation) is Paul's letters. That's the ONLY portion. And we just so happen to have Peter telling believers that Paul's portion can potentially be misconstrued. No other warning was given except about Paul's portion.
So I think it's worth reexamining Paul's portion to make sure we truly understand him.
Let me try this another way just to make sure I'm explaining myself well...
Recall Noah's situation: hopefully you will agree that as long as Noah stayed in the ark his safety was guaranteed. The Almighty wasn't going to let anything happen to that boat to where He'd lose Noah, his family, or the animals. They were safely in His hand. The boat can rock and Noah can stumble, but He's safely within the Almighty's protection throughout the journey.
...But Noah had a choice to stay in the ark (where safety was absolutely assured) OR to open the port (where he freed the bird) and dive out into the storm like a maniac to drown with the rest of the world.
The Almighty wasn't forcing Noah to remain in the boat.
Let's say at some point during the judgment Noah became absolutely convinced that the Almighty would never let him die no matter what he did...so much so that he actually DOVE OUT into the storm. Do you think the Almighty would've saved him? I'm completely sure Noah would've died.
His salvation from the judgment was completely assured but he STILL would've died. Why? Because leaving the protection of the ark would've been considered: (1) willful disobedience (the ark was built to protect him), and (2) pridefully tempting the Almighty based on His loving promise to Noah, no different than if the Messiah had listened to satan and cast Himself off of the high mountain just to be caught by angels. What I'm focusing on is a condition of the heart.
The GIFT of Salvation is absolutely guaranteed as long as one STAYS within the Almighty's hedge of protection. One must stay within the boundaries/walls of that gift.
The gift of salvation = the hedge of protection
...But if one CHOOSES to leave it (thinking they will be saved no matter what they do) they are choosing to reject the gift. They are choosing death. The Almighty isn't our personal umbrella boy chasing behind us to protect us wherever WE shall walk. He is the tabernacle that we're supposed to stay within.
And if we do walk, we walk where our Father, The King wants us to walks and only when He says to walk...just like the children of Israel did with the rolling tabernacle in the wilderness. They only packed up and moved when He said it was time to go, and only stopped to make camp when He stopped moving. Obedience & faithfulness.
----
The Almighty isn't the Parent of spoiled brats devoid of agency and personal responsibility, Who keeps fixing their problems and saving them from troubles while they keep disrespecting and disobeying Him, abusing His love for them...like the children this world currently produces.
Not "misconstrued" as you claim but TWISTED to change Bible truth and Gospel truth. Which also means perverting the words.
As also in all his [Paul's] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:16)
Strong's Concordance
strebloó: to twist
Original Word: στρεβλόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: strebloó
Phonetic Spelling: (streb-lo'-o)
Definition: to twist
Usage: I twist, torture; met: I twist or pervert language.
We see the twisting of Scriptures daily on this forum, and unfortunately you too are responsible for twisting the Scriptures (as I have noted in another thread). Christians have a solemn responsibility to ensure that they do not make up doctrines as they go along.
As also in all his [Paul's] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:16)
Strong's Concordance
strebloó: to twist
Original Word: στρεβλόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: strebloó
Phonetic Spelling: (streb-lo'-o)
Definition: to twist
Usage: I twist, torture; met: I twist or pervert language.
We see the twisting of Scriptures daily on this forum, and unfortunately you too are responsible for twisting the Scriptures (as I have noted in another thread). Christians have a solemn responsibility to ensure that they do not make up doctrines as they go along.
Noah , Abraham , Moses ect did not recieve what we recieve this side of the cross . There salvation is a type , but not the same. Going backwards before the greatest event in the entire bible ( The DBR ) is very deceptive. Your viewing salvation after the cross the same as before . Its weird. Its like you believe nothing happens to a believer today ?
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Do you think it could be possible that, when Paul mention "a falling away first", he is talking about mankind in general, after the Body of Christ has been raptured into Heaven?
With the rapture of the Body of Christ out of this evil world, there will be a general falling away of all the others who are left on the Earth, AND the emergence of the Antichrist.
So Paul might not be talking about Christians losing their salvation in that expression of "falling away".
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Do you think it could be possible that, when Paul mention "a falling away first", he is talking about mankind in general, after the Body of Christ has been raptured into Heaven?
With the rapture of the Body of Christ out of this evil world, there will be a general falling away of all the others who are left on the Earth, AND the emergence of the Antichrist.
So Paul might not be talking about Christians losing their salvation in that expression of "falling away".
Absolutely not. Allthe general epistles speak to the church about the church. Very rarely do they speak of anybody else with exception to the devil, the Antichrist, etc. The epistles warn the church of what's to come & what to look for.
The words 'falling away' comes from the Greek apostasia
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
falling away, apostacy
Feminine of the same as apostasion; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy") -- falling away, forsake.
see GREEK apostasion
The world doesn't have the truth, therefore it can't defect from it. The falling away is a defection within the church in the last days & is happening now. We're actually near the end of it. All these new false doctrines (including Hypergrace) is a big part of it.
Jesus said you shall know the truth, & the truth will set you free. Some of that freedom includes from fear, confusion, & falsehood. As you can see on this thread, there is a need for the truth, yet there are others purposely trying to cover the truth up with their outlandish posts to the contrary.
The words 'falling away' comes from the Greek apostasia
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
falling away, apostacy
Feminine of the same as apostasion; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy") -- falling away, forsake.
see GREEK apostasion
The world doesn't have the truth, therefore it can't defect from it. The falling away is a defection within the church in the last days & is happening now. We're actually near the end of it. All these new false doctrines (including Hypergrace) is a big part of it.
Jesus said you shall know the truth, & the truth will set you free. Some of that freedom includes from fear, confusion, & falsehood. As you can see on this thread, there is a need for the truth, yet there are others purposely trying to cover the truth up with their outlandish posts to the contrary.
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