Not By Works

[Phoneman-777]

[QUOTE="eternally-gratefull, post: 4499373, member: 82611 where does it say they are christian? It says the love of many, the word christian is not there[/QUOTE] The “love” of the “many” grows cold. The word “love” is “AGAPE”.

Now, are you’re going to argue that God imparts “AGAPE” to sinners? Therefore, the “many” can ONLY be saints - saints who allow iniquity to kill their agape cold and dead and leaves them unable to endure to the end - and no longer saved.

There are honest OSAS people who admit I’m right, which is why they are forced to argue that the “salvation” spoken here refers to “bodily salvation in the tribulation” which is ridiculous. God is only concerned with saving us eternally from the Lake of Fire, not with saving a body that, if destroyed, He need only blink and another one is prepared for us.

 

[OIC1965]

Doesn't the Bible teach that sin isn't part of the Christian life? How do we determine how much sin in the life of a OSAS believer is acceptable in God's sight?

No sin is acceptable in God's sight, which means that apart from Christ's righteousness imputed, none of us are acceptable. As far as Christians sinning, we need to pray for them, encourage them, correct when necessary, church discipline when needed, but don't be hasty to judge, but leave that to God who knows every person's heart. If a Christian is sinning, but is broken and grieved about it, they need encouragement and to be lifted up, not cast down. If a professed Christian is unrepentant and hardened, they need to be dealt with biblically, yet lovingly, by their elders.

 

[OIC1965]

What happens when we say "no" to the Holy Spirit when He speaks to our conscience?

Hardening. Or chastening. God deals with each person in His own wisdom.

 

[OIC1965]

Who gets the credit for your faith? you or God.

AMEN. God gets ALL the credit for everything.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Hardening. Or chastening. God deals with each person in His own wisdom.

How about “searing the conscience”?

 

[gb9]

How about “searing the conscience”?

what about " whom the Lord loves, He chastises " ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

what about " whom the Lord loves, He chastises " ?

I just pray if they have kids they do not treat their children like they claim God treats his children

 

[Kolistus]

How about “searing the conscience”?

I know personally people who just do not simply care anymore.

 

[star]

Phone-man-777, this is not right. You are implying another user is a snowflake by your words. Please don’t resort to political name-callings. This does nothing to build up the body of Christ.

He loves to use that word "snowflake" but I'm not bothered by it. I'm more concern about his lack of understanding how salvation works.

 

[star]

I can't boast in anything except Jesus and His truth which I love.

And why not? It's EASY to love the truth. The challenge is loving the brethren, especially those who attack you for preaching truth while they themselves preach lies like OSAS, which is condemned in Ezekiel 13:22-23 KJV.

Sir, if I were you, I'd look at your own judgments of others and consider how they must be challenged to your "attacks" upon them. OSAS is not as you present it. It is not condemned by the Word of God. "For God so loved the world that he gave His only Son" "whomever believes in Jesus will have eternal life."

 

[star]

The Holy Spirit cannot "get lost" once someone becomes a believer. The HS "seals" that believer for eternity. As long as we live on earth in the flesh, we will have spiritual warfare within. Sometimes we will "fail" to "heed" the HS but that does not in any way mean we are lost salvation, turned our back, etc. It amazes me the people who believe in constant works to try and impress God and to actually believe those works will keep their souls saved.

 

[gb9]

I just pray if they have kids they do not treat their children like they claim God treats his children

i think a lot of how people see God gets conflated with how they see their earthly dad.....

 

[BillG]

i think a lot of how people see God gets conflated with how they see their earthly dad.....

And or those who never knew their dad like me.
Mum got remarried and my stepdad did not like me.
Beatings and punishments were hard.
My mum didn't like me either, long story but won't go into it.
She divorced my stepdad and threw me out at 14.
Was fostered by a Christian family only to be sexually abused by foster dad.
Turns out he was jailed for child sexual abuse many years earlier.
Goodness knows how I was fostered because his conviction wasn't spent.

Very hard to relate to a loving God when your formative years affected every part of your life and the consequences that go with.

 

[Phoneman-777]

what about " whom the Lord loves, He chastises " ?

Sure, the Lord chastens the Christian...and if chastening doesn't work, He doesn't force Himself on us, He simply gives us up and allows us to serve our old master, sin.

As for searing (cauterizing) the conscience, it's just as when we sear a wound so that we don't feel it anymore --- or quenching the Spirit, so that we don't feel Him drawing us to repentance from backsliding just as when we quench our thirst so that we don't feel thirsty anymore.

 

[crossnote]

Sure, the Lord chastens the Christian...and if chastening doesn't work, He doesn't force Himself on us, He simply gives us up and allows us to serve our old master, sin.

Do you have Scripture for that?
My Bible says...

For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
(1Co 5:3-5)

BTW, my God doesn't give up, sorry about yours.

 

[Phoneman-777]

I know personally people who just do not simply care anymore.

I heard just this weekend about that same thing. A church brother who used to be a hardcore atheist and full on evolutionist and is now a Bible believing, in the tank Creationist met at his gym a hardcore atheist and evolutionist who used to be a Bible believing Creationist.

His hang up was that if there'll be no sin in heaven, that means the redeemed are all going to be robots without free will...which led him to embrace atheism and evolution, both of which are founded on the total absence of the concept of free will.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Sir, if I were you, I'd look at your own judgments of others and consider how they must be challenged to your "attacks" upon them. OSAS is not as you present it. It is not condemned by the Word of God. "For God so loved the world that he gave His only Son" "whomever believes in Jesus will have eternal life."

When have I judged anyone? Telling someone they're deceived is not "judging". Doing that is called "fruit inspecting" by authority of the badge that gets pinned to our chest the moment we accept Christ - we're all responsible for preserving the ecclesiastical barrel from bad apple doctrine.

"Judging" in the Biblical sense means to "judge motives" or "judge Biblical destinies" like saying, "he does that because he doesn't love God" or "she does that because she's lost"....or even saying, "I know for a fact my pastor will be in heaven".

It's been said that when we get to heaven, they'll be three surprises awaiting us: 1) we actually made it, 2) people are there we thought would never make it, and 3) the ones we thought would be closest to God's throne are no where to be found.

 

[gb9]

Sure, the Lord chastens the Christian...and if chastening doesn't work, He doesn't force Himself on us, He simply gives us up and allows us to serve our old master, sin.

As for searing (cauterizing) the conscience, it's just as when we sear a wound so that we don't feel it anymore --- or quenching the Spirit, so that we don't feel Him drawing us to repentance from backsliding just as when we quench our thirst so that we don't feel thirsty anymore.

so, in other words, God gives us a way and a chance to get get saved, but it is up to us to preform and behave in order to get and maintain that salvation.

o.k. that is what man-made religion says. and man-made religion leads one straight to hell on path of fake self-righteousness,

 

[BillG]

Sure, the Lord chastens the Christian...and if chastening doesn't work, He doesn't force Himself on us, He simply gives us up and allows us to serve our old master, sin.

As for searing (cauterizing) the conscience, it's just as when we sear a wound so that we don't feel it anymore --- or quenching the Spirit, so that we don't feel Him drawing us to repentance from backsliding just as when we quench our thirst so that we don't feel thirsty anymore.

As a person who underwent cauterisation that did not work I can tell you that I still suffer the consequences of it.

We know as you rightly say that the purpose of cauterisation is to stop the pain and trauma of an injury a wound in the hope that it heals.

Now in my case and being honest as I said my physical cauterisation did not work for the physical cause.

Now given my post 150,253 I hope you realize that as a result goodness knows how many wounds that resulted in many consequences from spiritual to emotional to physical to addiction.

I had the pain of all the above.

Severe anxiety, severe gambling.
Yet I never ever lost my faith in Jesus whilst gambling an awful lot of money.
I prayed so hard, I anointed oil over the gambling doors I went to asked angels to guard the door for me.

Yet it never worked. I got to the stage and asked God to kill me.
I was fed up of living hell on earth. And wanted to know where I was going.
Tried a couple of times to turn the wheel of my car over a bridge on the motorway but the wheel would not turn.

This was all going on even though I had wife and 4 kids. Running a business turning over $30m and 35 employees.

Now many people wrote me off because I stopped going to church. I even had a successful ministry in church which I asked to step back from. Young family, spiritually and emotionally and physically knackered (didn't tell them of the other struggles was too ashamed) I tried to approach the leaders for help but was refused because I wasn't giving out to the church anymore.

So my brother given what I have said and if you didn't know what what I was going through but did know what I was doing how would you thought of me?
Would you have written me off like some who did? Honest answer please.

Just so you know the cause of the wounds that led to affect were cauterised approx 30 years after. If you are interested I will let you know.

But to finish, did I backslide?
Did I quench?
Did I lose my thirst?
Did I not feel the holy spirit seeking me out?

Do you as a son of God judge and put a time limit on People like me or do you seek them out and walk with them to help them?
Are you willing to dig in and find out why?

Or are you the person who just says "Bible says don't do it so just stop it?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Do you have Scripture for that?
My Bible says...

For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
(1Co 5:3-5)

You're making my point. God allows consequences so that the Christian's fleshly desires can be destroyed that he might meet Jesus in peace, but if the Christian hardens his heart and refuses to turn back, "the latter end of them is worse than the beginning". Did not God say, "Ephraim is joined to his idols...leave him alone." Did not Jesus say to Israel, "Your house is left unto you desolate"? Did God say He was going to destroy the entire Israelite vineyard and everything in it in Isaiah 5, with no promised restoration, which refers to 70 A.D., not the Babylonian captivity?

BTW, my God doesn't give up, sorry about yours.

I don't know which god you are serving, but I know those to whom Jesus says, "Depart from Me, ye that work iniquity" are now serving the throne of iniquity (Psalm 94:20 KJV) while thinking they're serving God.