The diciples prayer .

[throughfaith]

We pray that way already. There's no element in that prayer that doesn't apply to every believer.

All scripture matters in its intended context. The problem with many churches today is they teach the wrong verses at the wrong time to the wrong audience .

 

[Journeyman]

All scripture matters in its intended context. The problem with many churches today is they teach the wrong verses at the wrong time to the wrong audience .

But brother, there is no wrong vetse, time, or audience for that prayer for any believer. I don't know why you would object to it.

 

[throughfaith]

But brother, there is no wrong vetse, time, or audience for that prayer for any believer. I don't know why you would object to it.

Because it was given to Jews before the cross. Our prayers after the cross are personal and intimate. Not corporate . Jesus didn't do or say anything generic or arbitrary. That prayer is rich in meaning to ISRAEL

 

[phil36]

Because it was given to Jews before the cross. Our prayers after the cross are personal and intimate. Not corporate . Jesus didn't do or say anything generic or arbitrary. That prayer is rich in meaning to ISRAEL

Here is a good, concise summary of the Israel/remnant theme from a New Testament perspective:

. . . Jesus had become a remnant of one. He was the embodiment of faithful Israel, the truly righteous and suffering servant.
Unlike the remnant of the restoration period, he committed no sin (Isa. 53:9; 1 Pet. 2:22).

As the embodiment of the faithful remnant, he would undergo divine judgment for sin (on the cross), endure an exile (three days forsaken by God in the grave), and experience a restoration (resurrection) to life as the foundation of a new Israel, inheriting the promises of God afresh.

As the remnant restored to life, he becomes the focus of the hopes for the continued existence of the people of God in a new kingdom, a new Israel of Jew and Gentile alike.

As the nucleus of a renewed Israel, Christ summons the “little flock” that will receive the kingdom (Dan. 7:22, 27; Luke 12:32) and appoints judges for the twelve tribes of Israel in the new age (Matt. 19:28; Luke 22:30).

The church is viewed as the Israel of that new age (Gal. 6:16), the twelve tribes (James 1:1), “a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession” (Ex. 19:6; 1 Pet. 2:9). tgc

 

[Journeyman]

Because it was given to Jews before the cross. Our prayers after the cross are personal and intimate. Not corporate . Jesus didn't do or say anything generic or arbitrary. That prayer is rich in meaning to ISRAEL

I don't see what difference it makes, whether before or after the cross, or whether Jews or gentiles are praying it.

How does recognizing and acknowledging Gods holiness and asking for the things contained in that prayer not apply to both Jewish and gentile believers?

 

[throughfaith]

I don't see what difference it makes, whether before or after the cross, or whether Jews or gentiles are praying it.

How does recognizing and acknowledging Gods holiness and asking for the things contained in that prayer not apply to both Jewish and gentile believers?

I've not said once that its bad ..Just that its not applicable . We pray ' abba father 'the middle wall of separation is no longer..We come boldly to the throne . Individually and intimately. The meaning and application of the deciples prayer is intimate for the jews . I don't come between what is for Israel .

 

[Journeyman]

I've not said once that its bad ..Just that its not applicable . We pray ' abba father 'the middle wall of separation is no longer..We come boldly to the throne . Individually and intimately. The meaning and application of the deciples prayer is intimate for the jews . I don't come between what is for Israel .

The "middle wall" separated the Jews from gentiles. I don't understand what you mean by coming between what is for Israel.

 

[throughfaith]

The "middle wall" separated the Jews from gentiles. I don't understand what you mean by coming between what is for Israel.

Today we have a whole host of denominations including the Catholics saying this prayer like a mantra. Its not a new testament verse for the church . The clue is in the very Jewish , OUR father .

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Luke 11

Is this prayer for today ?


1¶And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.

2¶And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

3Give us day by day our daily bread.

4And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

Yes, I think we should learn it, recite it, and model our prayer after it. It was Jesus intent for us to do.

 

[Guojing]

We pray that way already. There's no element in that prayer that doesn't apply to every believer.

Do you know what were the Jews thinking about when they were praying for God's kingdom to come on Earth?

 

[Guojing]

Here is a good, concise summary of the Israel/remnant theme from a New Testament perspective:

. . . Jesus had become a remnant of one. He was the embodiment of faithful Israel, the truly righteous and suffering servant.
Unlike the remnant of the restoration period, he committed no sin (Isa. 53:9; 1 Pet. 2:22).

As the embodiment of the faithful remnant, he would undergo divine judgment for sin (on the cross), endure an exile (three days forsaken by God in the grave), and experience a restoration (resurrection) to life as the foundation of a new Israel, inheriting the promises of God afresh.

As the remnant restored to life, he becomes the focus of the hopes for the continued existence of the people of God in a new kingdom, a new Israel of Jew and Gentile alike.

As the nucleus of a renewed Israel, Christ summons the “little flock” that will receive the kingdom (Dan. 7:22, 27; Luke 12:32) and appoints judges for the twelve tribes of Israel in the new age (Matt. 19:28; Luke 22:30).

The church is viewed as the Israel of that new age (Gal. 6:16), the twelve tribes (James 1:1), “a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession” (Ex. 19:6; 1 Pet. 2:9). tgc

Hmm, you believed that the Body of Christ is Israel during this new age?

I suppose you mean we are spiritual Israel?

 

[Guojing]

I don't see what difference it makes, whether before or after the cross, or whether Jews or gentiles are praying it.

How does recognizing and acknowledging Gods holiness and asking for the things contained in that prayer not apply to both Jewish and gentile believers?

Do you still pray to God to forgive you, based on how much you are forgiving others?

 

[Blik]

What leads you to believe that this instruction is to be applied outside of the context it was given ? ie to gentiles?

If we listen to you instead of to scripture, then we can discount much of scripture by deciding it doesn't fit your idea of context. Even our Father who created us becomes no longer the Father who created us, but that Father only created the Hebrews. Is Christ still the Son of the Father in your eyes or does this context you keep bringing up deny that?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Do you know what were the Jews thinking about when they were praying for God's kingdom to come on Earth?

Do you? The everlasting Kingdom of God on earth is found in many places in the Old Testament. Christ will take total control of all the kingdoms/nations/tribes/languages of this earth. And since it has not become a reality on earth so far, praying for it to be established in still valid and correct.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

There is one gospel, the Lord manifest in flesh called Jesus, his blood shed for sin of the world upon the cross and resurrected.
He is the only salvation, outside of him there is no salvation.

 

[Guojing]

Do you? The everlasting Kingdom of God on earth is found in many places in the Old Testament. Christ will take total control of all the kingdoms/nations/tribes/languages of this earth. And since it has not become a reality on earth so far, praying for it to be established in still valid and correct.

The Body of Christ is not promised the same kingdom on Earth in the first place. The kingdom was to Israel (2 Samuel 7)

 

[Edify]

Now that some of you are in agreement against throughfaith I would like to make some suggestions that I hope you will agree with:

• Everyone report him together & get him banned for his foul use of scripture & starting arguments.
• Quit posting with him.

If he gets banned, we will get back to normal.
If he doesn't get banned, maybe you'll figure out why.
Mark 6:11 Any place that does not receive you or listen to you, as you go out from there, shake the dust [k]off the soles of your feet as a testimony against them.

 

[Guojing]

Now that some of you are in agreement against throughfaith I would like to make some suggestions that I hope you will agree with:

• Everyone report him together & get him banned for his foul use of scripture & starting arguments.
• Quit posting with him.

If he gets banned, we will get back to normal.
If he doesn't get banned, maybe you'll figure out why.
Mark 6:11 Any place that does not receive you or listen to you, as you go out from there, shake the dust [k]off the soles of your feet as a testimony against them.

You prefer to live in echo chambers?

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Body of Christ is not promised the same kingdom on Earth in the first place. The kingdom was to Israel (2 Samuel 7)

The Body of Christ is a part of the Kingdom of God. So is redeemed and restored Israel. The apostle Paul was specifically made the apostle to the Gentiles (which now constitute the majority within the Church of Christ). And here is what Paul was preaching and teaching:

And when they had appointed him [Paul] a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the Kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. (Acts 28:23,24)

 

[Guojing]

The Body of Christ is a part of the Kingdom of God. So is redeemed and restored Israel. The apostle Paul was specifically made the apostle to the Gentiles (which now constitute the majority within the Church of Christ). And here is what Paul was preaching and teaching:

And when they had appointed him [Paul] a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the Kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. (Acts 28:23,24)

You may see it that way but the Jews during Jesus's days in the 4 gospels was not thinking about a spiritual kingdom of God.

They were thinking a physical one, where there is a Son of David himself physically on the throne of David in Jerusalem, the one found in 2 Samuel 7:12-16.

Jesus was telling Israel that he is that Son of David.