Was the Garden of Eden, literally Heaven on Earth? Was the Earth already fallen except for the Garden?
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exactly. HE said; Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Then look at this: Father Adam also said regarding Eve: This is flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone. Notice, that neither Adam, or Jesus His Pre-Eminence said: This is my flesh and blood?
it's before Genesis 3, however it's not "pre-plenish" but "re-plenish"
Yes, GOD is all knowing. HE knew that Man would have to fall from Glory and enter into a terrestrial earth to begin his mission. Look at who it is GOD is speaking to there.
but man was made from dust -- which is specifically terrestrial stuff.
and the trees in the garden were watered with a mist that came out of the "terra" = ground
the language of Genesis really doesn't support the idea that chapters 1-2 are about a heavenly realm. there are a great number of specific and explicit things said indicating it's the physical, terrestrial creation he is accomplished and describing.
He separated the waters above from those below. He made dry land appear. He set the sun to give light, but in heaven there is no sun, and no sea. there was evening and morning - but is there evening in heaven? He separated darkness from light.
this is where He made the living souls inhabiting bodies of flesh taken from the dust.
"the life is in the blood" -- and when He created us, He placed that life inside flesh and bone, made of dust, the breath of the Spirit of life.
not by accident. we're bipartite, physical + non-physical, and this amazes the angels.
He intends us to have physical bodies. He physically resurrects us and changes/transforms them -- as Paul said, we long not to be unclothed but further clothed, 2 Corinthians 5:4
On the first day, it is written that GOD said let there be light, and there was light. And GOD was counting the days, yet the sun has not been created yet. What time system was HE going by when counting the days without any sun?
Heaven is a physcal realm. It is not a ghost world. The body that they have in heaven is a physical body that has not any blood in her.
was there no light in heaven, that He should create it there?
the Son is the Light, and He is uncreated.
so we're clearly speaking about physical things; this is the creation of photons, not of Christ - and it is before the fall of man.
man, made from dust -- before he sinned, not after.
i recognize that y'all can form a pretty consistent mystical theory of creation with similarities to the truth.
but the Bible doesn't support it. Genesis is clear that it is a physical, terrestrial universe the LORD makes, a physical, terrestrial planet earth, a man made of physical, terrestrial, material, tangible dust with a spirit inside, becoming a living soul.
and these things He calls good -- they are not the product of sin and not the result of sin and not made of sin. they are made by His hand for His good intention. sin has corrupted, and He Himself cursed the ground for our sake -- but He will also redeem. He did not come as a man born of woman in order to condemn material existence, and the fact of His manifestation in the flesh is not sin, but He took upon Himself humanity to initiate the restoration of it. he physically healed. He physically raised the material bodies of people from death. He physically resurrected and physically ascended. the earth itself, the mountains - rock and soil - will rejoice at His return
but the Bible doesn't support it. Genesis is clear that it is a physical, terrestrial universe the LORD makes, a physical, terrestrial planet earth, a man made of physical, terrestrial, material, tangible dust with a spirit inside, becoming a living soul.
and these things He calls good -- they are not the product of sin and not the result of sin and not made of sin. they are made by His hand for His good intention. sin has corrupted, and He Himself cursed the ground for our sake -- but He will also redeem. He did not come as a man born of woman in order to condemn material existence, and the fact of His manifestation in the flesh is not sin, but He took upon Himself humanity to initiate the restoration of it. he physically healed. He physically raised the material bodies of people from death. He physically resurrected and physically ascended. the earth itself, the mountains - rock and soil - will rejoice at His return
Jesus His Pre-Eminence is GOD. HE has no beginning. You are ignoring why GOD said: And it was the first day, and it was the second day and the third day, yet there was no sun created. How were days counting? what system were they counting by?
God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night.
So the evening and the morning were the first day.
(Genesis 1:5)
is there darkness in the dwelling place of God? why does this begin in darkness if the Son is eternal uncreated Light?
because we're talking about the physical material tangible terrestrial creation?
How can man be made of dust yet they are born in a womb that needs semen and egg to form? Is there dust in the womb? Then how can GOD make man out of dust and proclaim that Man is in HIS image? GOD is not dust. Then explain to me why the gates of heaven are of 12 most precious stones, yet they are not in GOD's image? Only Man was said to be like HIM. There is what Moses was not able to catch, what GOD did exactly, and that is where the theory of evolution comes from. For the citizens of heaven saw man being formed but could not see GOD was one forming his body.
The earth before the fall was not dust. There are no heavenly planets that have dust in her. The Earth was in a dormant state, its systems were being set in the creation. Where did the Angels, and the Cherubim and Seraphim stay? Genesis speaks only of the three heavens worlds for Mankind: Eden, the firmaments and the earth.
Then here is my final question to you. How can someone who does not have the nature to sin, sin? A person needs to first have the nature to do that, else it they can't do it. Christians in the earth say they are saved yet they still sin. Why? because the nature of the body they have is that sin nature. The body that Father Adam, and Mother Eve had before the fall did not have that nature. Moses really didn't get it right, and thats why he walked the wilderness in circles for 40 years, to show that his teachings were not perfect.
The Son isn't uncreated light. Jesus His Pre-Eminence is GOD. HE is GOD the Son. HE is the Supreme Spirit Being. HE is not a force. The WORD of GOD is Light. When HE said: let there be light, the Light was in those very words.
The Darkness is any place that GOD has removed HIS presence from.
You actually have hit upon one of the great clues as to what Biblical Circumcision is about . . . for how can a woman be physically circumcised? And since she cannot be physically circumcised, how then, can she be saved as are men? Through childbirth? Hmmm . . . the Truth is, is that True Christians will have had their hearts Spiritually Circumcised by Christ.
Romans 2:28-29 NKJV - "For he is not a Jew who [is one] outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."
I'm glad that these verses are speaking to your heart, for these passages are the HEART of the Bible. And the Heart of the Bible rests the matter of the Human Heart . . . this is the Mysterious Plan that Paul speaks of in Ephesians chapters 2 and 3.
Oh man . . . you are few miles beyond me, PJoe! I know the Gospel . . . that's about it.
Interesting questions! I love it!
I wonder, though, if Satan would be a different "Satan." God is the same, but would Satan have been the same?
I think of this often, considering that this world is so miserable and unhappy. The Bible is clear, in that this world is overwhelmed by the Devil, that this world belongs (temporarily), to him.
No doubt . . . Jesus is the Tree of Life, for a person can only eat of one thing and live forever, and that would be Christ.
I love your questions, PJoe, for this speaks volumes about your Heart . . . and I would say that it is True and Genuine. It's refreshing to see someone with an open mind; a mind that wants to learn and understand. I personally, cannot imagine being any other way.
Could not agree more than it is a matter of the human heart. I'm really glad I spent some time reading my Bible this morning and thinking through this. I think it's a good reminder that we can have "outward" acts of faith like physical circumsion for men and childbirth for women, but it doesn't matter if we are not fully committed in our hearts.
As 1 Timothy 2:15 says when speaking of women:
15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
That is a big and very important "if" after childbearing. I would definitely think the same standard applies to men who have been physically circumsized.