Is Jesus New Covenant or New "Law"?

[pumpkinbread1567]

the Law has been "fulfilled.

Uhm...... I wanted to agree with that at first sight. But I don't think "circumcision" is the only fulfillment of the Law as "law" means Torah. All those commandments are part of the Law to be fulfilled, and all those words of the prophets are the prophecy.

Just as the lamb sacrifice of Exodus was fulfilled with crucifixion, passover, the feast of tabernacles, the feast of Trumpets and the feast of first-fruits among others must be fulfilled in like manner. Some may say they've all been fulfilled, but I don't see that, actually.

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

Nor did I say you said anyone was condemned...

Let me clarify what seems confusing to me here... You quoted me from my post about Matthew 5 which says about jots and strokes of the law never passing away until completion, including my question. So you'd think my instinct would tell me you'd be replying to that in some way, but instead, your reply was that none is condemned, which I never mentioned. Do you think it was unnatural for me to assume you thought that I said anything wrong and contradictory to Bible about condemnation? If you just wanted to communicate, sorry. I couldn't catch that.

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

Jesus fulfilled the OT laws

So do you think the entire law has been all completed, or are you saying some of the commandments and traditions?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Uhm...... I wanted to agree with that at first sight. But I don't think "circumcision" is the only fulfillment of the Law as "law" means Torah. All those commandments are part of the Law to be fulfilled, and all those words of the prophets are the prophecy.

Just as the lamb sacrifice of Exodus was fulfilled with crucifixion, passover, the feast of tabernacles, the feast of Trumpets and the feast of first-fruits among others must be fulfilled in like manner. Some may say they've all been fulfilled, but I don't see that, actually.

I think the Bible is teaching - When Christ Circumcises the Sinful Nature from the Human Heart, which is the general Curse that came about all Creation because of Adam and Eve, there is no need of any Law. This is what it means to be "set-apart." If Christ has Purified a person, of what need is there for written Law? Hence, True Christians live by the Laws of the Spirit of Life, as clearly shown in Rom 8:2, and this is what it means to share in the Divine Nature of Christ as clearly described in 2 Pet 1:4. If a person shares in the Divine Nature, of what need is there of Laws? Will there be Laws in Heaven to monitor our sin? Nah. Paul taught that where there is no Law, there can be no Transgression.

This Mysterious Plan is also interesting as it is Mysterious.

 

[Evmur]

We say the same things, with different words and a different conclusion. But I so agree that it is such a wonderful blessed thing that through Christ we are given eternal life.

God's people aren't "messing around with sin" when they are guided by scripture telling them what sin is and how to avoid choosing it.

When we put on Christ we put on righteousness. Righteousness hates sin, and if you decide you won't listen to the word or the Holy Spirit telling you what sin is, how can you avoid or hate something you won't allow?

For over 4,000 years!! of man living of earth before Christ was sacrificed, blood was required for the forgiveness of sin. In Isaiah we are told that God hates (not from the time of Isaiah but Isaiah spoke for the eternal God) blood of animals. We are told the blood was the shadow of Christ. We are told that there is not, never was, will never be forgiveness outside of Christ.

Listen we know what sin is, if as a christian you do not know it is wrong to steal or lie, if you need a law to stop you, you are in trouble already.

Moreover sin is in our members but it is dead but when you start trying to live by the law it springs back to life that is exactly what the struggle is.

BELIEVE sin is dead, KNOW sin is dead, COUNT sin as dead then we can get on and live the new Christ-life. Walk in the Spirit and fulfil not the desires of the flesh.

Our goal is holiness, it is how we attain to it that is important. We attain to it by understanding that it is a work that has been accomplished already for us by Christ. All we need to do is walk in it.

 

[brighthouse98]

Brother pumpkinbrea,if you believe that Jesus blood was not enough to fulfill the Old Covenant to bring a new one for us,then just throw away the New Testament for it has no meaning at all to any of us. Then prayer means nothing,for we would still be bound by the old law.

But when the Lord appeared to me in a mop closet in college,for I was like many here,but I believed in only one person. ME!!! ( Matt 10:7-11) Since being saved and filled through the Lord Jesus I have done these things,at least for me I believe Jesus was indeed enough for me! I have never raised the dead yet in the Lord,but the others I have seen the Lord preform through me.

Jesus had to die to bring about a New Covenant in the first place. Lets say I wish to give a million dollars to pumpkinbrea in my will,I have to die for you to receive it. but once I die brother you get what was promised to you. So Jesus died so we might receive much better promises in the New rather then the condemnation of the Old.

There is no hope in the Old,and those who do not believe that Jesus was enough,will receive there judgment from the Old law just as they choose to hold fast to. For the law was never based upon any ones faith. ( Gal 3:12-14) It did take the Holy Spirit to show me,so my words will hopefully someday bear witness for what the Lord in all his grace showed me. Blessing brother!

 

[crossnote]

When we are told Jesus fulfilled all the law and prophets, it is telling us that every prophecy made of Christ was fulfilled, and that there is no sin Christ does not forgive us for except blasphemy. It has nothing to do with future prophecies.

Where in Scripture do you find that? Jesus would say something like 'Moses and the Prophets spoke of me', I have never seen, 'All the Law and Prophets were fulfilled by me', nor have I seen, 'Jesus fulfilled all the Law and Prophets'.
Are we making up our own rules?

 

[CS1]

This is a thread dedicated to member @brighthouse98 for the titled discussion that happened in Miscellaneous page. I thought I should move it here. He/she did not ask for it, but after my last (and somewhat critical) post, he/she stopped responding, so I decided I would wait here while anticipating others to tell us what they think. So anyone is welcome to post here.

Moreover,
He/she also thinks that Jesus fulfilled the ENTIRE Law and the prophets,
along with a member named shittim. Thus I make a poll for it.

I will transfer the very last few of our exchanges below (for convenience), but here is the link to the page: Old "Law" or Old Covenant?

Well, Brighthouse is a He. Jesus has fulfilled all concerning the law and Prophets 100% in context to His Birth, death, burial, the law, and resurrection.

 

[CS1]

My thoughts exactly. The reason why I stated that was because member #brighthouse98 told me that the covenant was faulty, and he/she also stated the words Covenant and Law were interchangeable, hence he/she essentially decided that the Law was faulty, and I told him/her if the Law had been so faulty it had to be removed, it would make the Lawmaker (God) a lier, who established good and evil WITH THE LAW. (@brighthouse98 )

hey, FYI Brighthouse is a HE Ok. enough of the He/she stuff.

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

So you do agree the House of Israel and the House of Judah, the current Israel that we see now on the world map, never accepted the New Covenant.

Uhm, like, again, few individual Israelites have accepted Jesus as Messiah.

So, if you say "Israel", you talk about the whole thing, which you can't say is filled with the new covenant until all are saved, but the house is a separate concept from Israel. (It's probably empty now.)

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

Well, Brighthouse is a He.

hey, FYI Brighthouse is a HE Ok. enough of the He/she stuff.

Yeah I know, but at the time I didn't know his gender to be exact, and my head got confused.

Jesus has fulfilled all concerning the law and Prophets 100% in context to His Birth, death, burial, the law, and resurrection.

What about Passover, the feast of Tabernercles, the feast of Trumpets, and the feast of first-fruits? What about his second coming? (Do you think Second Coming is written about in the OT?)

 

[pumpkinbread1567]

Brother pumpkinbrea,if you believe that Jesus blood was not enough to fulfill the Old Covenant to bring a new one

Jesus had to die to bring about a New Covenant

I never said any of us should be bound and constricted by the old covenant either. IDK what you thought of me. And yes, I believe Jesus came as the new covenant written in Jer 31.

What say you, do you think the prophets foretold of Jesus' Second Coming?

 

[Guojing]

Uhm, like, again, few individual Israelites have accepted Jesus as Messiah.

So, if you say "Israel", you talk about the whole thing, which you can't say is filled with the new covenant until all are saved, but the house is a separate concept from Israel. (It's probably empty now.)

Yes, so that is why I made the point that the New Covenant cannot be established yet with anyone, Israel is empty now, as you stated.

But after the 2nd coming, it will not be since the entire nation will accept Christ as their Messiah (Romans 11:26-27)

 

[brighthouse98]

Sure, remember this scripture bro? ( 2 Peter 1:21)

 

[Nehemiah6]

Yes, so that is why I made the point that the New Covenant cannot be established yet with anyone, Israel is empty now, as you stated.

You continue to post this false doctrine when you have already been shown from Scripture that the New Covenant went into effect the day Christ died. Which means that you do not really care about what has been revealed by God. All you care about is promoting your false and dangerous beliefs.

 

[Guojing]

You continue to post this false doctrine when you have already been shown from Scripture that the New Covenant went into effect the day Christ died. Which means that you do not really care about what has been revealed by God. All you care about is promoting your false and dangerous beliefs.

You mean to say you believe that Christians have become the House of Israel and the House of Judah, whom the New Covenant will be made with? (Hebrews 8:8)

If so, show from scripture.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

You mean to say you believe that Christians have become the House of Israel and the House of Judah, whom the New Covenant will be made with? (Hebrews 8:8)

If so, show from scripture.

When will you believe that a True Jew, or a True Christian is one whose Heart has been Circumcised by Christ . . . by the Spirit? This is the ONLY group who will obtain Salvation.

Romans 2:28-29 KJV - "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God."

Guojing . . . I suggest that you begin to take this doctrine seriously. I suggest that you take the Bible seriously. I suggest that you take our God seriously.

 

[Guojing]

When will you believe that a True Jew, or a True Christian is one whose Heart has been Circumcised by Christ . . . by the Spirit? This is the ONLY group who will obtain Salvation.

Romans 2:28-29 KJV - "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God."

Guojing . . . I suggest that you begin to take this doctrine seriously. I suggest that you take the Bible seriously. I suggest that you take our God seriously.

With the usage of the word "or", are you saying a true Christian is equivalent a true Jew, which qualifies him to be the Israel stated in Hebrews 8:8?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

With the usage of the word "or", are you saying a true Christian is equivalent a true Jew, which qualifies him to be the Israel stated in Hebrews 8:8?

Please stop twisting everything that is given to you and simply ponder it. Memorize Colossians 2:9-15. Until you know those 7 Perfect Verses, our discussions will be fruitless; we will never accomplish anything.

 

[Guojing]

Please stop twisting everything that is given to you and simply ponder it. Memorize Colossians 2:9-15. Until you know those 7 Perfect Verses, our discussions will be fruitless; we will never accomplish anything.

You replied to my question to another person, so I was just trying to clarify whether you were answering the same question, or you were making a separate point.

So which is it?