AnandaHya, I thought I've been pretty clear on all this so far, I'm talking about the Israel that God created through Abram who became Abraham, I believe it was you I gave the scriptures from Ez. 36 to, if not let me know. They are quite clear of God's dealing with Israel, even in the last days. Spiritual Israel is not who I'm talking about in this thread. Shalom
GOD DONE WITH ISRAEL?
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E
I think Scripture is quite clear in OT Prophesies and even in the NT (see romans 9-11) that Gods dealing with national Israel is not yet complete. There will be a future restoration, where God gathers the dry bones from all over the world, and bring them back into their land. And they will finally recieve their messiah,
Jesus fulfilled one aspect of the promise to Abraham (in you shall all the nations of the world been blessed) The other national aspects of the covenant have yet to be fully fulfilled.
Jesus fulfilled one aspect of the promise to Abraham (in you shall all the nations of the world been blessed) The other national aspects of the covenant have yet to be fully fulfilled.
A
when the nation Israel declares Jesus as Lord and Savior then we can talk about God's promise. When God has washed them clean and put in them a new heart and the Holy Spirit speaks from their lips the spirit of prophecy which is the testimony of Jesus, until then it is but an earthly nation that denies the salvation offered by Jesus Christ. Confession and repentance is needed if a person or a nation has walked away from GOD. Through God all things are possible but that does not mean it is present at this time.
The Muslim claim to be descendants of Abraham through Ishmael through Hagar and they have a book promising their salvation without Jesus as well.
Why should Christians believe the earthly Jewish nation to be any different?
Especially since the Muslims at least say that Jesus is a prophet when some of the Jewish faith has proclaimed Jesus a heretic and false?
What does the Bible REALLY tell us about national Israel versus spiritual Israel?
Ezekiel 36
25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God. 29 I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. I will call for the grain and multiply it, and bring no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of your trees and the increase of your fields, so that you need never again bear the reproach of famine among the nations. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good; and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight, for your iniquities and your abominations. 32 Not for your sake do I do this,” says the Lord GOD, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel!”
The Muslim claim to be descendants of Abraham through Ishmael through Hagar and they have a book promising their salvation without Jesus as well.
Why should Christians believe the earthly Jewish nation to be any different?
Especially since the Muslims at least say that Jesus is a prophet when some of the Jewish faith has proclaimed Jesus a heretic and false?
What does the Bible REALLY tell us about national Israel versus spiritual Israel?
Ezekiel 36
25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God. 29 I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. I will call for the grain and multiply it, and bring no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of your trees and the increase of your fields, so that you need never again bear the reproach of famine among the nations. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good; and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight, for your iniquities and your abominations. 32 Not for your sake do I do this,” says the Lord GOD, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel!”
A
can you point out which "national aspects of the covenant have yet to be fully fulfilled " in the OT and NT?
Romans 11
26 And so all Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:
“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”[h]
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34 “ For who has known the mind of the LORD?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35 “ Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”[j]
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
Romans 11
26 And so all Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:
“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”[h]
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34 “ For who has known the mind of the LORD?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35 “ Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”[j]
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
E
Well you pointed out one yourself. Look at the passage you posted. what does it say?
1. For the gospel they are enemies for our sake. Why? They have rejected the Gospel.
2. For the election, they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. Why? Gods covenant with the fathers still stands (national)
3. As of now. Israel as a nation has rejected their messiah. But at one point. ALL Israel will be saved.
Look also at earlier verses which Show God has set them aside until the times of the Gentiles is fullfilled. then they will be restored.
Look also at the valley of dry bones which I mentioned. About Hod god gave life to the nation which was dead to him.
Look also at the 70 weeks of daniel.. Which was concerning his nation. not the world. When the end of the 70 weeks is complete. Israel will be restored.
I could go an and on and on and on.
hello avinu.
zechariah is a difficult book initially since there is no real solid NT equivalent, ex. Romans (but the shining jewel of the Eternal Purpose revealed in the ultimate ekklesia epistle, Ephesians*, wherein all these issues are resolved)
i believe zechariah covers all of Redemptive History, right up to the eternal kingdom. like every other part of the bible it is about Jesus.
Zech 8 you quoted above can ONLY be interpreted 2 ways, and again, that hermeneutic will be either covenental or dispensational.
put simply, my understanding of the entire book of zechariah:
we are not going backwards, God's Plan is progressively revealed, salvation and redemption is expanding, all the redeemed becoming one people, one family, with One Lord, One Faith, One Destiny (the new creation).
Zech 8: covenant theology - fulfilled at the First Advent and during the Apostolic era. him that is a jew could in fact be Jesus Himself (more likely the apostles)
Zech 8: dispensational theology - not fulfilled, to be fulfilled during a future 1,000 years.
during this future time, the passing from the physical to the spiritual is split or worse, reversed for a thousand years! and for what reason? no one has a good answer.
this idea is based SOLELY on one chapter in an apocalytic book which uses symbology (Rev 20).
~
Ephesians 2
By Grace Through Faith
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the bodya and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 Butb God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
One in Christ
11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens,c but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God byd the Spirit.
~
if any truly regenerated person can read even verses 11-22 and see anything other than an absolute passing away of the temporal; an expansion from the OT "the land" to what is then later called in the NT by Jesus and the apostles "the Earth", or "the World", we have a serious problem.
right from Arbram we have the gentiles, or nations receiving the Light of the World.
its been 2000 years, avinu.
~
i have a question i hope you can answer avinu, being hebrew:
the following terms used by Christ while He was still ministering to the lost sheep of israel mean what?
how would the hebrews have understood the terms in green?
what does Jesus mean by: THIS AGE and THE AGE TO COME?
Matthew 12:32
And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Mark 10:30
who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life.
is it not true that the hebrews would have understood "this world/age" to be the messianic age, and the "age to come" the eternal state?
because if that is so, some people have entered the messianic era (recognizing Jesus in Daniel 9) while it appears others have not....is that what the future 1,000 years is for? IT DOESN'T WORK.
zechariah is a difficult book initially since there is no real solid NT equivalent, ex. Romans (but the shining jewel of the Eternal Purpose revealed in the ultimate ekklesia epistle, Ephesians*, wherein all these issues are resolved)
i believe zechariah covers all of Redemptive History, right up to the eternal kingdom. like every other part of the bible it is about Jesus.
Zech 8 you quoted above can ONLY be interpreted 2 ways, and again, that hermeneutic will be either covenental or dispensational.
put simply, my understanding of the entire book of zechariah:
we are not going backwards, God's Plan is progressively revealed, salvation and redemption is expanding, all the redeemed becoming one people, one family, with One Lord, One Faith, One Destiny (the new creation).
Zech 8: covenant theology - fulfilled at the First Advent and during the Apostolic era. him that is a jew could in fact be Jesus Himself (more likely the apostles)
Zech 8: dispensational theology - not fulfilled, to be fulfilled during a future 1,000 years.
during this future time, the passing from the physical to the spiritual is split or worse, reversed for a thousand years! and for what reason? no one has a good answer.
this idea is based SOLELY on one chapter in an apocalytic book which uses symbology (Rev 20).
~
Ephesians 2
By Grace Through Faith
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the bodya and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 Butb God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
One in Christ
11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens,c but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God byd the Spirit.
~
if any truly regenerated person can read even verses 11-22 and see anything other than an absolute passing away of the temporal; an expansion from the OT "the land" to what is then later called in the NT by Jesus and the apostles "the Earth", or "the World", we have a serious problem.
right from Arbram we have the gentiles, or nations receiving the Light of the World.
its been 2000 years, avinu.
~
i have a question i hope you can answer avinu, being hebrew:
the following terms used by Christ while He was still ministering to the lost sheep of israel mean what?
how would the hebrews have understood the terms in green?
what does Jesus mean by: THIS AGE and THE AGE TO COME?
Matthew 12:32
And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Mark 10:30
who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life.
is it not true that the hebrews would have understood "this world/age" to be the messianic age, and the "age to come" the eternal state?
because if that is so, some people have entered the messianic era (recognizing Jesus in Daniel 9) while it appears others have not....is that what the future 1,000 years is for? IT DOESN'T WORK.
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Hi Zone, In a nut shell, you have some (if nothing else) compelling points, but the problem is you're missing the other half of the arguement. And that is there is scripture that is crystal clear through out OT, that talks restoration of physical Israel in the last days and at Messiah's return. Isaiah, Ez. Jer. Zech. etc. We can not overlook those. Shalom
p.s. So that I can understand your thinking better, (I'm sincere, no sarcasm here.)explain to me what being reformed christian is.
p.s. So that I can understand your thinking better, (I'm sincere, no sarcasm here.)explain to me what being reformed christian is.
how many Israels are there avinu?
if natural branches are broken off due to unbelief and only grafted back in through repentence and the forgiveness of sins through the Lamb of God's Propitiation, what are we expecting for the unbelieving parts of the nation state of Israel?
the Israel that God "created" through Abraham is not all Israel. so what are you asking? there are wheat and tares in Palestine just like in the rest of the world.
Galatians 3:16
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.
now Paul either passed on what he had revealed directly from Jesus or he didn't.
what is Paul saying here in Galatians?
are we saved by anything other than Grace through faith; the gift of God?
is there ONE PEOPLE of God? from every kindred, tongue and nation even today?
i'm not clear on what you are asking in the OP.
if natural branches are broken off due to unbelief and only grafted back in through repentence and the forgiveness of sins through the Lamb of God's Propitiation, what are we expecting for the unbelieving parts of the nation state of Israel?
the Israel that God "created" through Abraham is not all Israel. so what are you asking? there are wheat and tares in Palestine just like in the rest of the world.
Galatians 3:16
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.
now Paul either passed on what he had revealed directly from Jesus or he didn't.
what is Paul saying here in Galatians?
are we saved by anything other than Grace through faith; the gift of God?
is there ONE PEOPLE of God? from every kindred, tongue and nation even today?
i'm not clear on what you are asking in the OP.
i am aware that physical israel is being called to Jesus even today, exactly as foretold: a remnant, according to grace.
we either believe that God has reserved to Himself a remnant, or we hold to some form of universalism.
i need clarity on this.
its clearer to say i hold to Amillennial Covenant Theology. this sees Christ as the center of all things, and sees Rev 20 as the messianic era (NOW - this world) from the first Advent to the Second (the world to come, world without end)
upon the Second Advent there is only Judgment.
i hoped you would address this world and the world to come (the two-age model) not 3.
we either believe that God has reserved to Himself a remnant, or we hold to some form of universalism.
i need clarity on this.
its clearer to say i hold to Amillennial Covenant Theology. this sees Christ as the center of all things, and sees Rev 20 as the messianic era (NOW - this world) from the first Advent to the Second (the world to come, world without end)
upon the Second Advent there is only Judgment.
i hoped you would address this world and the world to come (the two-age model) not 3.
hi bud!
yes, thank you.
how many israels are there? do the Talmudists and Baylonian idolators get saved because they claim Abraham for their father? or is there a remnant (like our brother avinu) who has never been among them?
you and i have unfinished business in Daniel 9
if Jesus fulfilled Daniel 9, the Kingdom began THEN, and is not of this world.
Jesus made it COMPLETELY CLEAR The Kingdom had come upon them 2000 years ago:
Matthew 12:28
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
He warned them then of judicial blindness...has He changed?
yes, thank you.
how many israels are there? do the Talmudists and Baylonian idolators get saved because they claim Abraham for their father? or is there a remnant (like our brother avinu) who has never been among them?
you and i have unfinished business in Daniel 9
if Jesus fulfilled Daniel 9, the Kingdom began THEN, and is not of this world.
Jesus made it COMPLETELY CLEAR The Kingdom had come upon them 2000 years ago:
Matthew 12:28
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
He warned them then of judicial blindness...has He changed?
Zone, I agree, Yeshua is in the center of everything, for He was before the foundation of the earth, Everything is about Him.
Call it a remnant, or call it Israel as a whole, I'm just talking about God restoring physical Israel in the last days, no that doesn't mean that every hebrew is going to heaven, like anyone else there will be those who go to hell. But that isn't it either.
Here's where we differ, Rev. 20 I believe is yet to come, won't start till Yeshua returns (second coming) and proclaims His kingdom as Lord of Lords and Molech HaMolechim.
After the 1000 yr. reign of Messiah, then God's judgement and then the entering of the New Heaven and New Earth. Shalom
Call it a remnant, or call it Israel as a whole, I'm just talking about God restoring physical Israel in the last days, no that doesn't mean that every hebrew is going to heaven, like anyone else there will be those who go to hell. But that isn't it either.
Here's where we differ, Rev. 20 I believe is yet to come, won't start till Yeshua returns (second coming) and proclaims His kingdom as Lord of Lords and Molech HaMolechim.
After the 1000 yr. reign of Messiah, then God's judgement and then the entering of the New Heaven and New Earth. Shalom
E
hi bud!
yes, thank you.
how many israels are there? do the Talmudists and Baylonian idolators get saved because they claim Abraham for their father? or is there a remnant (like our brother avinu) who has never been among them?
yes, thank you.
how many israels are there? do the Talmudists and Baylonian idolators get saved because they claim Abraham for their father? or is there a remnant (like our brother avinu) who has never been among them?
Then there are national Israel. Whoever is born of the seed of Abraham through Jacob and his 12 sons.
There are national isrealites who belong to both groups. Some who just belong to one (number 2)
No one will be saved by being a part of national Israel, But Scripture does state that at one time in the future all who are national born children of Israel will recieve Christ and be saved.
you and i have unfinished business in Daniel 9
if Jesus fulfilled Daniel 9, the Kingdom began THEN, and is not of this world.
Jesus made it COMPLETELY CLEAR The Kingdom had come upon them 2000 years ago:
Matthew 12:28
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
He warned them then of judicial blindness...has He changed?
if Jesus fulfilled Daniel 9, the Kingdom began THEN, and is not of this world.
Jesus made it COMPLETELY CLEAR The Kingdom had come upon them 2000 years ago:
Matthew 12:28
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
He warned them then of judicial blindness...has He changed?
national israel (if there is such a thing) which is not part of spiritual israel can only expect temporal blessings in this life like anyone else.
Joshua 21
Cities and Pasturelands Allotted to Levi
1Then the heads of the fathers’ houses of the Levites came to Eleazar the priest and to Joshua the son of Nun and to the heads of the fathers’ houses of the tribes of the people of Israel. 2And they said to them at Shiloh in the land of Canaan, “The Lord commanded through Moses that we be given cities to dwell in, along with their pasturelands for our livestock.” 3So by command of the Lord the people of Israel gave to the Levites the following cities and pasturelands out of their inheritance.
4The lot came out for the clans of the Kohathites. So those Levites who were descendants of Aaron the priest received by lot from the tribes of Judah, Simeon, and Benjamin, thirteen cities.
5And the rest of the Kohathites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Ephraim, from the tribe of Dan and the half-tribe of Manasseh, ten cities.
6The Gershonites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Issachar, from the tribe of Asher, from the tribe of Naphtali, and from the half-tribe of Manasseh in Bashan, thirteen cities.
7The Merarites according to their clans received from the tribe of Reuben, the tribe of Gad, and the tribe of Zebulun, twelve cities.
8These cities and their pasturelands the people of Israel gave by lot to the Levites, as the Lord had commanded through Moses.
9Out of the tribe of the people of Judah and the tribe of the people of Simeon they gave the following cities mentioned by name, 10which went to the descendants of Aaron, one of the clans of the Kohathites who belonged to the people of Levi; since the lot fell to them first. 11They gave them Kiriath-arba (Arba being the father of Anak), that is Hebron, in the hill country of Judah, along with the pasturelands around it. 12But the fields of the city and its villages had been given to Caleb the son of Jephunneh as his possession.
13And to the descendants of Aaron the priest they gave Hebron, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands, Libnah with its pasturelands, 14Jattir with its pasturelands, Eshtemoa with its pasturelands, 15Holon with its pasturelands, Debir with its pasturelands, 16Ain with its pasturelands, Juttah with its pasturelands, Beth-shemesh with its pasturelands—nine cities out of these two tribes; 17then out of the tribe of Benjamin, Gibeon with its pasturelands, Geba with its pasturelands, 18Anathoth with its pasturelands, and Almon with its pasturelands—four cities. 19The cities of the descendants of Aaron, the priests, were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.
20As to the rest of the Kohathites belonging to the Kohathite clans of the Levites, the cities allotted to them were out of the tribe of Ephraim. 21To them were given Shechem, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands in the hill country of Ephraim, Gezer with its pasturelands, 22Kibzaim with its pasturelands, Beth-horon with its pasturelands—four cities; 23and out of the tribe of Dan, Elteke with its pasturelands, Gibbethon with its pasturelands, 24Aijalon with its pasturelands, Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—four cities; 25and out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Taanach with its pasturelands, and Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—two cities. 26The cities of the clans of the rest of the Kohathites were ten in all with their pasturelands.
27And to the Gershonites, one of the clans of the Levites, were given out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Golan in Bashan with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, and Beeshterah with its pasturelands—two cities; 28and out of the tribe of Issachar, Kishion with its pasturelands, Daberath with its pasturelands, 29Jarmuth with its pasturelands, En-gannim with its pasturelands—four cities; 30and out of the tribe of Asher, Mishal with its pasturelands, Abdon with its pasturelands, 31Helkath with its pasturelands, and Rehob with its pasturelands—four cities; 32and out of the tribe of Naphtali, Kedesh in Galilee with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Hammoth-dor with its pasturelands, and Kartan with its pasturelands—three cities. 33The cities of the several clans of the Gershonites were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.
34And to the rest of the Levites, the Merarite clans, were given out of the tribe of Zebulun, Jokneam with its pasturelands, Kartah with its pasturelands, 35Dimnah with its pasturelands, Nahalal with its pasturelands—four cities; 36and out of the tribe of Reuben, Bezer with its pasturelands, Jahaz with its pasturelands, 37Kedemoth with its pasturelands, and Mephaath with its pasturelands—four cities; 38and out of the tribe of Gad, Ramoth in Gilead with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Mahanaim with its pasturelands, 39Heshbon with its pasturelands, Jazer with its pasturelands—four cities in all. 40As for the cities of the several Merarite clans, that is, the remainder of the clans of the Levites, those allotted to them were in all twelve cities.
41The cities of the Levites in the midst of the possession of the people of Israel were in all forty-eight cities with their pasturelands. 42These cities each had its pasturelands around it. So it was with all these cities.
43Thus the Lord gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. 44And the Lord gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the Lord had given all their enemies into their hands. 45Not one word of all the good promises that the Lord had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.
~
so this is explicit.
God fulfilled every TEMPORAL Land Promise He made to the house of israel. ALL CAME TO PASS.
then what?
Hebrews 4:8
1Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. 2For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.a 3For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,
“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”
although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” 5And again in this passage he said,
“They shall not enter my rest.”
6Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, Godb would not have spoken of another day later on. 9So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
11Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
12For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
13And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
~
so, this book to the Hebrews penned 2000 years ago uses the physical type (Canaan/Joshua) to point to the spiritual - JESUS, and warns them TODAY they must strive to enter in.
i see nowhere in that book of all books where the hebrews are promised a future millennium to somehow revert back to a Temple and the sacrificial system.
Joshua 21
Cities and Pasturelands Allotted to Levi
1Then the heads of the fathers’ houses of the Levites came to Eleazar the priest and to Joshua the son of Nun and to the heads of the fathers’ houses of the tribes of the people of Israel. 2And they said to them at Shiloh in the land of Canaan, “The Lord commanded through Moses that we be given cities to dwell in, along with their pasturelands for our livestock.” 3So by command of the Lord the people of Israel gave to the Levites the following cities and pasturelands out of their inheritance.
4The lot came out for the clans of the Kohathites. So those Levites who were descendants of Aaron the priest received by lot from the tribes of Judah, Simeon, and Benjamin, thirteen cities.
5And the rest of the Kohathites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Ephraim, from the tribe of Dan and the half-tribe of Manasseh, ten cities.
6The Gershonites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Issachar, from the tribe of Asher, from the tribe of Naphtali, and from the half-tribe of Manasseh in Bashan, thirteen cities.
7The Merarites according to their clans received from the tribe of Reuben, the tribe of Gad, and the tribe of Zebulun, twelve cities.
8These cities and their pasturelands the people of Israel gave by lot to the Levites, as the Lord had commanded through Moses.
9Out of the tribe of the people of Judah and the tribe of the people of Simeon they gave the following cities mentioned by name, 10which went to the descendants of Aaron, one of the clans of the Kohathites who belonged to the people of Levi; since the lot fell to them first. 11They gave them Kiriath-arba (Arba being the father of Anak), that is Hebron, in the hill country of Judah, along with the pasturelands around it. 12But the fields of the city and its villages had been given to Caleb the son of Jephunneh as his possession.
13And to the descendants of Aaron the priest they gave Hebron, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands, Libnah with its pasturelands, 14Jattir with its pasturelands, Eshtemoa with its pasturelands, 15Holon with its pasturelands, Debir with its pasturelands, 16Ain with its pasturelands, Juttah with its pasturelands, Beth-shemesh with its pasturelands—nine cities out of these two tribes; 17then out of the tribe of Benjamin, Gibeon with its pasturelands, Geba with its pasturelands, 18Anathoth with its pasturelands, and Almon with its pasturelands—four cities. 19The cities of the descendants of Aaron, the priests, were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.
20As to the rest of the Kohathites belonging to the Kohathite clans of the Levites, the cities allotted to them were out of the tribe of Ephraim. 21To them were given Shechem, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands in the hill country of Ephraim, Gezer with its pasturelands, 22Kibzaim with its pasturelands, Beth-horon with its pasturelands—four cities; 23and out of the tribe of Dan, Elteke with its pasturelands, Gibbethon with its pasturelands, 24Aijalon with its pasturelands, Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—four cities; 25and out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Taanach with its pasturelands, and Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—two cities. 26The cities of the clans of the rest of the Kohathites were ten in all with their pasturelands.
27And to the Gershonites, one of the clans of the Levites, were given out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Golan in Bashan with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, and Beeshterah with its pasturelands—two cities; 28and out of the tribe of Issachar, Kishion with its pasturelands, Daberath with its pasturelands, 29Jarmuth with its pasturelands, En-gannim with its pasturelands—four cities; 30and out of the tribe of Asher, Mishal with its pasturelands, Abdon with its pasturelands, 31Helkath with its pasturelands, and Rehob with its pasturelands—four cities; 32and out of the tribe of Naphtali, Kedesh in Galilee with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Hammoth-dor with its pasturelands, and Kartan with its pasturelands—three cities. 33The cities of the several clans of the Gershonites were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.
34And to the rest of the Levites, the Merarite clans, were given out of the tribe of Zebulun, Jokneam with its pasturelands, Kartah with its pasturelands, 35Dimnah with its pasturelands, Nahalal with its pasturelands—four cities; 36and out of the tribe of Reuben, Bezer with its pasturelands, Jahaz with its pasturelands, 37Kedemoth with its pasturelands, and Mephaath with its pasturelands—four cities; 38and out of the tribe of Gad, Ramoth in Gilead with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Mahanaim with its pasturelands, 39Heshbon with its pasturelands, Jazer with its pasturelands—four cities in all. 40As for the cities of the several Merarite clans, that is, the remainder of the clans of the Levites, those allotted to them were in all twelve cities.
41The cities of the Levites in the midst of the possession of the people of Israel were in all forty-eight cities with their pasturelands. 42These cities each had its pasturelands around it. So it was with all these cities.
43Thus the Lord gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there. 44And the Lord gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers. Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the Lord had given all their enemies into their hands. 45Not one word of all the good promises that the Lord had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.
~
so this is explicit.
God fulfilled every TEMPORAL Land Promise He made to the house of israel. ALL CAME TO PASS.
then what?
Hebrews 4:8
1Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. 2For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.a 3For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,
“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”
although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” 5And again in this passage he said,
“They shall not enter my rest.”
6Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, Godb would not have spoken of another day later on. 9So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.
11Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
12For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
13And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
~
so, this book to the Hebrews penned 2000 years ago uses the physical type (Canaan/Joshua) to point to the spiritual - JESUS, and warns them TODAY they must strive to enter in.
i see nowhere in that book of all books where the hebrews are promised a future millennium to somehow revert back to a Temple and the sacrificial system.
E
I will try to get this to you later. I have a graduation to go through tonight. I do not just want to put something quick together. would not be fair to either of us. If I don't get to it tonight. I will tomorrow. Remond me if ya see me on (I have another 4 hour test to do) Todays is almost done. so I will not be here much longer