God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels

[Live4Him]

I'm going to try to avoid this website for most of the day, so, for now, I'll simply suggest to you that you might want to gain a better understanding of Paul's use of the word "mystery" in his epistles.

Paul used that word, mystērion in the underlying Greek, with "mystery religions" in mind.

In regard to the same, although things truly are a "mystery" to those who have not been initiated into the same, there's no "mystery" to the initiates themselves.

Somebody will get it...

Isn't this gnosctism?

I'm not sure that I understand your question.

Are you asking if what I said is Gnosticism or if Gnosticism itself is a "mystery religion"?

In either case, something like the following is what I was referring to:

Mark chapter 4

[10] And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
[11] And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
[12] That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

My point is that, in scripture, a "mystery" isn't something that nobody knows about.

Today, we might see something like an unsolved murder, and say, "It's a mystery as to who committed the crime" because NOBODY KNOWS who did it, but that is not the way that the word "mystery" is used in scripture.

Instead, as we just saw in Jesus' exchange with "they that were about him with the twelve", Jesus said "UNTO YOU IT IS GIVEN TO KNOW THE MYSTERY OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables".

THIS is basically what a "mystery religion" is.

A religion in which THE INITIATES know things that those who are not initiated into the same don't know.

https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Mystery+Religion

Mystery Religion (religion, spiritualism, and occult)

Witchcraft/Wicca is a mystery religion similar to the ancient Greek mysteries. A mystery in this sense is a rite or religion that is kept secret from all but its initiates, who have been trained, prior to the revelations of the rite, by a heirophant, or "revealer of holy things."

 

[throughfaith]

I'm not sure that I understand your question.

Are you asking if what I said is Gnosticism or if Gnosticism itself is a "mystery religion"?

In either case, something like the following is what I was referring to:

Mark chapter 4

[10] And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.
[11] And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
[12] That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

My point is that, in scripture, a "mystery" isn't something that nobody knows about.

Today, we might see something like an unsolved murder, and say, "It's a mystery as to who committed the crime" because NOBODY KNOWS who did it, but that is not the way that the word "mystery" is used in scripture.

Instead, as we just saw in Jesus' exchange with "they that were about him with the twelve", Jesus said "UNTO YOU IT IS GIVEN TO KNOW THE MYSTERY OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables".

THIS is basically what a "mystery religion" is.

A religion in which THE INITIATES know things that those who are not initiated into the same don't know.

https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Mystery+Religion

Mystery Religion (religion, spiritualism, and occult)

Witchcraft/Wicca is a mystery religion similar to the ancient Greek mysteries. A mystery in this sense is a rite or religion that is kept secret from all but its initiates, who have been trained, prior to the revelations of the rite, by a heirophant, or "revealer of holy things."

What was the mystery of the kingdom of God, that was given to them ? it wasn't the Gospel of grace given to Paul . They had no clue of the mysteries that were given to Paul .
The biblical use of the word, “mystery” refers to some truth that had been hidden in the past, but was eventually revealed by God

 

[Live4Him]

What was the mystery of the kingdom of God, that was given to them ? it wasn't the Gospel of grace given to Paul . They had no clue of the mysteries that were given to Paul .
The biblical use of the word, “mystery” refers to some truth that had been hidden in the past, but was eventually revealed by God

Before I answer your questions, please elaborate on what you mean by "The biblical use of the word 'mystery' refers to some truth that had been hidden in the past but was eventually revealed by God".

"Hidden" in what sense?

That God had never uttered it before?

That he had previously spoken it through prophets and the prophets themselves didn't even understand it?

Some other thing?

Please clarify.

Thanks.

 

[throughfaith]

Before I answer your questions, please elaborate on what you mean by "The biblical use of the word 'mystery' refers to some truth that had been hidden in the past but was eventually revealed by God".

"Hidden" in what sense?

That God had never uttered it before?

That he had previously spoken it through prophets and the prophets themselves didn't even understand it?

Some other thing?

Please clarify.

Thanks.

Eph 3 is just one example .
1¶For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Another place is col 1

25Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

So two things there .
1) Jew / gentile
2) ' christ IN you

 

[Live4Him]

Eph 3 is just one example .
1¶For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Another place is col 1

25Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

So two things there .
1) Jew / gentile
2) ' christ IN you

I'm sorry, but this still doesn't answer my question.

For example, when Paul said "which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit", do you believe that Paul was saying that this "mystery" had never before been "revealed" unto anybody OR that it had never before been revealed "as it is NOW revealed"?

In other words, was Paul saying that this was a brand new "revelation" OR a fuller "revelation" of things which were previously known by others?

I'm assuming that you believe the former, but I want to be sure of what you actually believe so I can respond accordingly.

Anyhow, I do need to take care of several things right now, so I might not respond to your reply to these questions for a few hours.

 

[throughfaith]

I'm sorry, but this still doesn't answer my question.

For example, when Paul said "which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit", do you believe that Paul was saying that this "mystery" had never before been "revealed" unto anybody OR that it had never before been revealed "as it is NOW revealed"?

In other words, was Paul saying that this was a brand new "revelation" OR a fuller "revelation" of things which were previously known by others?

I'm assuming that you believe the former, but I want to be sure of what you actually believe so I can respond accordingly.

Anyhow, I do need to take care of several things right now, so I might not respond to your reply to these questions for a few hours.

I believe as it literally says . Exactly.

 

[Live4Him]

I believe as it literally says . Exactly.

Thanks for your non-answer.

It never ceases to amaze me how so many who claim to be born again or indwelt by "the Spirit of truth" cannot honestly answer simple questions.

If you cannot explain to me what you believe "it literally says", then I see no need to continue this conversation.

 

[throughfaith]

I'm sorry, but this still doesn't answer my question.

For example, when Paul said "which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit", do you believe that Paul was saying that this "mystery" had never before been "revealed" unto anybody OR that it had never before been revealed "as it is NOW revealed"?

In other words, was Paul saying that this was a brand new "revelation" OR a fuller "revelation" of things which were previously known by others?

I'm assuming that you believe the former, but I want to be sure of what you actually believe so I can respond accordingly.

Anyhow, I do need to take care of several things right now, so I might not respond to your reply to these questions for a few hours.

I believe these ' mysteries ' revealed to Paul , in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;which had been hid from ages and from generations. No one taught these to Paul other than by direct revelation from Jesus.

 

[Live4Him]

I believe these ' mysteries ' revealed to Paul , in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;which had been hid from ages and from generations. No one taught these to Paul other than by direct revelation from Jesus.

How did Paul explain these "mysteries" or "direct revelations from Jesus"?

With completely new information OR by expounding upon scriptures like the writings of Moses, the prophets, and the psalmists?

 

[Scribe]

I believe these ' mysteries ' revealed to Paul , in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;which had been hid from ages and from generations. No one taught these to Paul other than by direct revelation from Jesus.

He received them by understanding scripture with the illumination of the Holy Spirit. The same way that we can. There are still things in the OT that Paul did not bring up and you and I with the help of the Holy Spirit can preach Jesus from those scriptures like Paul did for the ones he mentions. Paul is our example, not another member of the Godhead.

 

[throughfaith]

How did Paul explain these "mysteries" or "direct revelations from Jesus"?

With completely new information OR by expounding upon scriptures like the writings of Moses, the prophets, and the psalmists?

Rom 16
25¶Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was KEPT SECRET since the world began,

 

[throughfaith]

He received them by understanding scripture with the illumination of the Holy Spirit. The same way that we can. There are still things in the OT that Paul did not bring up and you and I with the help of the Holy Spirit can preach Jesus from those scriptures like Paul did for the ones he mentions. Paul is our example, not another member of the Godhead.

25¶Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was KEPT SECRET since the world began,

 

[Live4Him]

He received them by understanding scripture with the illumination of the Holy Spirit. The same way that we can. There are still things in the OT that Paul did not bring up and you and I with the help of the Holy Spirit can preach Jesus from those scriptures like Paul did for the ones he mentions. Paul is our example, not another member of the Godhead.

Well, lookey here.

Somebody gets it...although I'm not sure what your last comment means...?

 

[Live4Him]

Rom 16
25¶Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was KEPT SECRET since the world began,

LOL!!!

Have you never read THE VERY NEXT VERSE?

Romans 16

[25] Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
[26] But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

 

[Scribe]

Well, lookey here.

Somebody gets it...although I'm not sure what your last comment means...?

He is our example of how we also can find Jesus in the scriptures and it is up to us to mine the scriptures like gold. God is no respecter of persons, what He revealed to Paul He will reveal to us if we seek Him and seek wisdom in the word as hid treasure.

 

[Scribe]

Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."

 

[throughfaith]

LOL!!!

Have you never read THE VERY NEXT VERSE?

Romans 16

[25] Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
[26] But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Yes prophecy,( in ' type ' ) which THEY had no clue on until it was revealed to Paul .

 

[throughfaith]

Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."

What ever you make through looking back is done so from the knowledge you have from Paul.

 

[throughfaith]

LOL!!!

Have you never read THE VERY NEXT VERSE?

Romans 16

[25] Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
[26] But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

If Jesus never revealed it to Paul, we would still have no clue . Thats the overall point . So teaching from the four gospels and the book of Acts as if God stopped speaking and revealing ,there , is where 90% of Christendom gets its errors from.

 

[throughfaith]

Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."

The Lord does NOT preach the death, burial, and resurrection to Abraham as such, although He foresees the death, burial, and resurrection of His Son at this time. Abraham only “sees Christ’s day” (John 8:56) in the sense that he manifested that he had enough faith to believe in the physical resurrection of Isaac