Why do we call the Father, the Creator ..when the Son should have that title also?

[pittsburghjoe]

John 1:1-4 (NASB)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of mankind.

John 1:1-4 (KJV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

So the Word is Jesus:
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

I know Christ and the Father are the same person, but I don't get why we are told the Father gets the title of Creator.

Who is the follow about? Is it some kind of weird poem for the Church or humanity? I'm confused on how it could be anyone but Christ.

Proverbs 8
22 The Lord possessed (created) me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Romans 11:36 NKJV - 36 For of Him and through Him and to Him [are] all things, to whom [be] glory forever. Amen.

Colossians 1:16 NKJV - 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

 

[FlyingDove]

John 1:1-4 (NASB)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of mankind.

John 1:1-4 (KJV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

So the Word is Jesus:
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

I know Christ and the Father are the same person, but I don't get why we are told the Father gets the title of Creator.

Who is the follow about? Is it some kind of weird poem for the Church or humanity? I'm confused on how it could be anyone but Christ.

Proverbs 8
22 The Lord possessed (created) me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Father is a Title.

Jews refer to Abraham as their father
Lk 1:73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
(NOTE: Also see Jn 8:39,53, Rom 4:1,16,17,18,)

Jews refer to Jacob as their father
Jn 4:12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
(NOTE: Also see Rom 9:10)

Jesus refers to God the Father
Lk 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

Jn 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
(MY NOTE: Jesus is speaking here. Jesus isn't talking to Abraham, Joseph or Himself. A voice from heaven speaks back to Jesus.

Christ is from everlasting
Micah 5:2 (KJV) Oh Bethlehem, you are little to be among the clans of Judah; out of you shall One come forth for Me Who is to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth have been from old, from everlasting.
(MY NOTE: Jesus is from everlasting/NO Beginning)

Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
(MY NOTE: Christ/God the Son is of the same substance as God the Father. Yet, not being sired has NO beginning of days/wasn't born)

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace

Each Capitalized name in Isa 9:6 is a TITLE. Each title represents a different attribute of the Son, that shall be given.

Christ is God our Creator Jn 1:3 & 10, Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6. He holds every TITLE mentioned above.

1 Tim 3:16 (A) Without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Father is a Title.

Jews refer to Abraham as their father
Lk 1:73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
(NOTE: Also see Jn 8:39,53, Rom 4:1,16,17,18,)

Jews refer to Jacob as their father
Jn 4:12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
(NOTE: Also see Rom 9:10)

Jesus refers to God the Father
Lk 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?

Jn 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
(MY NOTE: Jesus is speaking here. Jesus isn't talking to Abraham, Joseph or Himself. A voice from heaven speaks back to Jesus.

Christ is from everlasting
Micah 5:2 (KJV) Oh Bethlehem, you are little to be among the clans of Judah; out of you shall One come forth for Me Who is to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth have been from old, from everlasting.
(MY NOTE: Jesus is from everlasting/NO Beginning)

Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
(MY NOTE: Christ/God the Son is of the same substance as God the Father. Yet, not being sired has NO beginning of days/wasn't born)

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace

Each Capitalized name in Isa 9:6 is a TITLE. Each title represents a different attribute of the Son, that shall be given.

Christ is God our Creator Jn 1:3 & 10, Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6. He holds every TITLE mentioned above.

1 Tim 3:16 (A) Without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh.

I'm all for Christ being the Creator also. I'm asking why the Church has specified the Father as the Creator when clearly the Son is also. I think we need a new way to explain the Holy Trinity.

 

[pottersclay]

I'm all for Christ being the Creator also. I'm asking why the Church has specified the Father as the Creator when clearly the Son is also. I think we need a new way to explain the Holy Trinity.

Because jesus does nothing of his own but only what the father says.
All things come from the father.
That is the order of heaven. God the father crafted, measured,colored, designed, all that is. Jesus spoke theses things in existence as the father led.
Much like the architects of today which draft blue prints of buildings and such it is out of the mind and imagination of the person that drafted and designed. Then you have the tradesmen who put it together.
"And by him all things are held together"

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Because jesus does nothing of his own but only what the father says.
All things come from the father.
That is the order of heaven. God the father crafted, measured,colored, designed, all that is. Jesus spoke theses things in existence as the father led.
Much like the architects of today which draft blue prints of buildings and such it is out of the mind and imagination of the person that drafted and designed. Then you have the tradesmen who put it together.
"And by him all things are held together"

Interesting.

So could God the Father be in a dimension outside of ours? Christ is the Representation of the Father in our dimensions. God the Father makes the plan and Christ makes it happen.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Could the Holy Spirit literally be our dimensions?

 

[Magenta]

So could God the Father be in a dimension outside of ours?

Seriously?

 

[Magenta]

Could the Holy Spirit literally be our dimensions?

God the FATHER of us.

God the SON as us.

God the Holy Spirit in us.

^ I love the simplicity of that

With a nod to @p_rehbein

 

[pittsburghjoe]

God the FATHER of us.

God the SON as us.

God the Holy Spirit in us.

^ I love the simplicity of that

With a nod to @p_rehbein

God would want representation in dimensions lower than Himself. Christ is much more than just us.

 

[Magenta]

God would want representation in dimensions lower than Himself. Christ is much more than just us.

I identified Him as God... so, yeah. Yet He was fully man. Do you disagree?

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Proverbs 8:26
While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

Wait a second, were the "fields" mentioned, quantum fields? This is amazing if so.

I think the bible uses dust to talk about atoms. Atoms to form Adam.

 

[bluto]

John 1:1-4 (NASB)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of mankind.

John 1:1-4 (KJV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

So the Word is Jesus:
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

I know Christ and the Father are the same person, but I don't get why we are told the Father gets the title of Creator.

Who is the follow about? Is it some kind of weird poem for the Church or humanity? I'm confused on how it could be anyone but Christ.

Proverbs 8
22 The Lord possessed (created) me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Excuse me but how would you explain that Jesus should be given credit for creation? What would you say that the Bible does not already say in your opinion? You also made this statement, "I know Christ and the Father are the same person, but I don't get why we are told the Father gets the title of Creator."

No, God the Father and God the Son are "NOT" one and the same person. The Bible goes to great lengths identifying the Father and the Son as "distinct" persons. The persons of the Trinity are distince from each other "BUT" one in nature and essence. You and I and all humanity share the one nature of "human being." We are also "distinct" persons. Your not your father and he is not you.

Why do you think that Jesus Christ referred to Himself on numerous occasions as "The Son of Man" and as "The Son of God?" He is the Son of Man on His mothers sides and the Son of God on His Fathers side, hence the two natures of the one person of Jesus Christ. You can prove me wrong by giving me an example of a son that does not share the same nature as its father.

Getting back to who should get credit for creation is clearly explained starting right there at John 1:1 which you quoted. Did you not notice that at John 1:1 where it says, "In the beginning" starts out like at Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning" with the same exact three words. The main thought of the Genesis "In the beginning" is on WHAT HAPPENED In the beginning. The emphasis on John's "In the beginning" is on WHO EXISTED "in the beginning."

So John's "beginning" even antecedes the Genesis "beginning" extending without an initial beginning into eternity past, before even time was created. Remember John 17:24, where Jesus, in His humanity, said, "Father, I desire that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am, in order that they may behold My glory, which Thou had give Me; for Thou didst love ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."

One of the questions I like to ask those that deny the deity of Jesus Christ and shoots down the idea that at John 1:1 is Gods spoken word or Gods spoken word is really God plan and thoughts is this? If the Son never eternally existed His incarnation as a man then why is the Son at John 1:1-3 identified or presented as the Agent of creation? The Son is also given credit for creation at Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:10 by His own Father and at Revelation 3:14.

So Mr. pittsburghjoe, please explain to all of us here how you can improve on what the Bible says?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Excuse me but how would you explain that Jesus should be given credit for creation? What would you say that the Bible does not already say in your opinion? You also made this statement, "I know Christ and the Father are the same person, but I don't get why we are told the Father gets the title of Creator."

No, God the Father and God the Son are "NOT" one and the same person. The Bible goes to great lengths identifying the Father and the Son as "distinct" persons. The persons of the Trinity are distince from each other "BUT" one in nature and essence. You and I and all humanity share the one nature of "human being." We are also "distinct" persons. Your not your father and he is not you.

Why do you think that Jesus Christ referred to Himself on numerous occasions as "The Son of Man" and as "The Son of God?" He is the Son of Man on His mothers sides and the Son of God on His Fathers side, hence the two natures of the one person of Jesus Christ. You can prove me wrong by giving me an example of a son that does not share the same nature as its father.

Getting back to who should get credit for creation is clearly explained starting right there at John 1:1 which you quoted. Did you not notice that at John 1:1 where it says, "In the beginning" starts out like at Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning" with the same exact three words. The main thought of the Genesis "In the beginning" is on WHAT HAPPENED In the beginning. The emphasis on John's "In the beginning" is on WHO EXISTED "in the beginning."

So John's "beginning" even antecedes the Genesis "beginning" extending without an initial beginning into eternity past, before even time was created. Remember John 17:24, where Jesus, in His humanity, said, "Father, I desire that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am, in order that they may behold My glory, which Thou had give Me; for Thou didst love ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."

One of the questions I like to ask those that deny the deity of Jesus Christ and shoots down the idea that at John 1:1 is Gods spoken word or Gods spoken word is really God plan and thoughts is this? If the Son never eternally existed His incarnation as a man then why is the Son at John 1:1-3 identified or presented as the Agent of creation? The Son is also given credit for creation at Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:10 by His own Father and at Revelation 3:14.

So Mr. pittsburghjoe, please explain to all of us here how you can improve on what the Bible says?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

You only needed to read a couple more posts in this thread before you started your rant.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

When the Bible mentions "world" and "earth" in the same verse, is it using "world" to mean the Universe and Heaven?

 

[Ahwatukee]

John 1:1-4 (NASB)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of mankind.

John 1:1-4 (KJV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

So the Word is Jesus:
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

I know Christ and the Father are the same person, but I don't get why we are told the Father gets the title of Creator.

Greetings pittsburghjoe!

Actually, the Father and the Messiah are not the same person. They are One God, but are individual person. This is made clear, for example, when Jesus was baptized. After He came up out of the water, the Spirit in the form of a dove landed upon Him and the voice of the Father from heaven said, "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased." The same is true when Jesus was transfigured into His glorified state on the mount, where the voice from cloud said, "this is my Son whom I love. Listen to Him." And again, in Revelation we have the Lamb walking up an taking the scroll out of the right hand of the Father. So, they are One God, but are individual persons.

Regarding Jesus as the creator, God the Father says the following about God the Son:

“In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment.

You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed;

but You remain the same, and Your years will never end.”

And

"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him."

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Greetings pittsburghjoe!

Actually, the Father and the Messiah are not the same person. They are One God, but are individual person. This is made clear, for example, when Jesus was baptized. After He came up out of the water, the Spirit in the form of a dove landed upon Him and the voice of the Father from heaven said, "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased." The same is true when Jesus was transfigured into His glorified state on the mount, where the voice from cloud said, "this is my Son whom I love. Listen to Him." And again, in Revelation we have the Lamb walking up an taking the scroll out of the right hand of the Father. So, they are One God, but are individual persons.

Regarding Jesus as the creator, God the Father says the following about God the Son:

“In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.

They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment.

You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed;

but You remain the same, and Your years will never end.”

And

"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him."

Guess what else is invisible to us? Anything outside of our four dimensions. Please glance through the other posts in this thread.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Why do we call the Father, the Creator ..when the Son should have that title also?

We who?
I'm not sure which Christians have a problem envisaging God The Father, Son & Holy Spirit as the creator.
Is this a denominational thing?

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Why do we call the Father, the Creator ..when the Son should have that title also?

We who?

Oh, one step ahead I see, cool, could you glance through the other posts in this thread, please?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Guess what else is invisible to us? Anything outside of our four dimensions. Please glance through the other posts in this thread.

Invisible? I didn't say anything about that. I was providing information regarding God the Father and God the Son as being One God, yet existing as individual persons.