No gentile has ever been under Mosaic law

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So, the point is that if you are a gentile there is no need to mind the ten commandments?
 
GandalfTheWhite said:
There is not one verse in the Bible (that I know of) that state the Law saves.
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Once upon a time it could but that changed at the cross.

Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
 
FlyingDove said:
In my opinion the Law is love position is antithetical to scripture.

When properly implemented the law KILLS without mercy:

Numbers 15:32 a man gathered sticks on the sabbath day. Vs 33, he's brought before Moses, Aaron & all the congregation. Vs 34, he's locked up until they seek God's council. Vs 35, the Lord say's STONE him to DEATH. Vs 36, the CONGREGATION STONED him to DEATH as commanded by Lord & Moses.

Lev 20:10, anyone that commits adultery PUT THEM TO DEATH.

Ex 22:18 KILL every witch (WITHOUT MERCY)

Ex 35:2 KILL anybody that does any work (temple priests were excluded) on the Sabbath

Paul's Holy Spirit inspired writing also disagree with a, law is love, position:

He cites the law written & engraved in stones. As the ministration of death (vs 7) & the ministration of condemnation (vs 9)

2 Cor 3:
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(MY NOTE: Written to believers (2 Cor 1:1) The letter/law/administers death. But, the NT Holy Spirit's administration is life giving).

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
(MY NOTE: The apostle calls the 10 commandments the ministration of death)

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
(MY NOTE: The apostle calls the 10 commandments the ministration of condemnation)

Rom 4:15 (A) the law worketh wrath

Gal 3:19 It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made
(MY NOTE: Because of sin the law was added & in effect, UNTIL, Christ/the promised seed should come)

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith
(MY NOTE: The law is a teacher, it's purpose is to identify, expose & without mercy condemn sin. Having said that, we don't have to be (And Aren't!) under Mosaic law, to understand what sin is.)

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
(MY NOTE: The law via the prophets was preached, UNTIL, the arrival of Jesus the Christ)

Final point:
Fundamentally, Mosaic law is just, BUT, it can't justify anyone. The law is holy, BUT, can't make anyone holy. The law is righteous, BUT, can't make anyone righteous.

If the law can't make us holy, righteous or justified, condemns without mercy unto death, was to be preached UNTIL Christ's arrival.

Why, are so many people tenaciously driven. To place today's NT believers under it's yoke of condemnation?

Rom 8:1 (A) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. Rom 6:14. Shalom, JJ
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How many times did Yeshua said they should stone people? Did He not live Torah perfectly to be the perfect sacrifice? :)

It is our understanding of the Law that is flawed. We have a tendency to judge and that is not different from what Israel did. There were reasons why YHVH instructed His people to be killed when they turned away from the Law. :)

God bless my friend.
 
ewq1938 said:
lol

That was answered in the post of mine.
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Really? That's an "answer"? Then why and how would the cross make any change to your supposed "way of salvation"?

If you think there was one way of salvation before the cross and after the cross there is a new way of salvation = dispensational error.
 
tribesman said:
Really? That's an "answer"? Then why and how would the cross make any change to your supposed "way of salvation"?
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Let's get back to the facts here. During the first covenant Jesus DID say obeying the law would lead to eternal life which is salvation. We need to establish that as a fact before preceding.
 
ewq1938 said:
Let's get back to the facts here. During the first covenant Jesus DID say obeying the law would lead to eternal life which is salvation. We need to establish that as a fact before preceding.
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Obeying the law by faith, yes. As a fruit of regeneration. Of course this is implied. Faith is assumed in what Jesus said in Luke 10, wouldn't you say? I can't really see any difference here between the covenants. The gospel was also taught and believed back then (Heb.4:2). Same principle.
 
GandalfTheWhite said:
There is not one verse in the Bible (that I know of) that state the Law saves. The Law is a map to perfection but none could be perfect, except Yeshua :).

Yeshua lived His life as a Jew and never once contradicted the Law, yet He showed grace and mercy when people approached Him. Is this in itself not contradicting the Law as described by many Christians today?

It is our understanding of the Law that is flawed and by investigating the life of our King we can see how to live Torah. May Yeshua give us wisdom to learn from Him and to teach one another in kindness.
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There has never been a post on this site that I have read that states that the law saves. There are posts after posts falsely accusing someone of saying that. Anyone who states the truth about the law is often accused. Accusers seem to not believe Paul who tells us we are dead to sin, and asks why we would want to go back to sin.
 
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ewq1938 said:
Let's get back to the facts here. During the first covenant Jesus DID say obeying the law would lead to eternal life which is salvation. We need to establish that as a fact before preceding.
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I have never read any scripture saying obedience leads to eternal life. I have read that obedience leads to blessings, disobedience leads to curses. It is biblical words for if you steal you go to jail. But I have never read of eternal life being one of those blessings. Please, if it is in scripture, we need to have it pointed out to us.
 
ewq1938 said:
Once upon a time it could but that changed at the cross.

Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
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If it changed at the cross, then Christ is a new God separate from the Father. Scripture denies that, and here you make that statement!!!!
 
ewq1938 said:
Once upon a time it could but that changed at the cross.

Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
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Unfortunately this does not say the Law saves :) it says "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself."
 
Blik said:
There has never been a post on this site that I have read that states that the law saves. There are posts after posts falsely accusing someone of saying that. Anyone who states the truth about the law is often accused. Accusers seem to not believe Paul who tells us we are dead to sin, and asks why we would want to go back to sin.
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I agree :)
 
GandalfTheWhite said:
Unfortunately this does not say the Law saves :) it says "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself."
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And the question is: can you do any of this without faith? Of course not.
 
Blik said:
I have never read any scripture saying obedience leads to eternal life.
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Well, now you have when you read these:

Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
 
Blik said:
There has never been a post on this site that I have read that states that the law saves.
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Actually, Scripture DOES say it.

Ezekiel 18:27 NLT - "And if wicked people turn from their wickedness, obey the law, and do what is just and right, they will save their lives."

Acts 15:1 NLT - "While Paul and Barnabas were at Antioch of Syria, some men from Judea arrived and began to teach the believers: "Unless you are circumcised as required by the law of Moses, you cannot be saved."

That said, Paul states rather clearly that the Law does not and cannot save. So what do we make of this? Is this an error . . . or? Again . . . how do we explain this seeming contradiction?

Romans 8:3 NLT - "The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin's control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins."
 
ewq1938 said:
It says obeying the law at that time would lead someone to receive eternal life. That's salvation.
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All the Jews who remain in the covenant of Law, before Christ came, will be placed in Abraham's bosom/Paradise at their deaths.

Note that they did not have to keep the Law perfectly, because no one could. All they were required to do is to offer burnt sacrifices whenever they break the Law.

As far as God is concerned, he will then see them as blameless, in the eyes of the Law (Luke 1:6)

When Christ return for Israel in his 2nd coming, all these Jews will then receive their salvation (Romans 11:25-27, Hebrews 8:12, Acts 3:19-21).

That is how your perspective, and those who oppose your perspective like Blik, can be reconciled.
 
Guojing said:
All the Jews who remain in the covenant of Law, before Christ came, will be placed in Abraham's bosom/Paradise at their deaths.
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Those who are to receive the Grace, Compassion, and Mercy [will] remain in the Abrahamic Covenant. Why? Because it is based upon God's Promise and nothing else.

Romans 8:3 NLT - "The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin's control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins."
 
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