Rom 8.23 is critical to the discussion, and completely destroys the idea that Predestination is about sinners to conversion.And most Armins agree with Calvinism that Predestination took place before they were born. The only difference is they think its according to God seeing that they would believe . This is just an inconsistent attempt to move away from the consequences of the system Arminaism came from . Calvinism.
Scriptural Authority .
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I agree. It's impossible to force a will. One who believes does so because he is convinced, it's not that he chooses to or is pressed to. The only thing the human will can do is reject. We see it all the time; with different subjects. The political world is absolute evidence that people believe what they are convinced of regardless of any information presented. This is exemplary of the human will to reject evidence, and maintain a false position. That is how those who love their wickedness reject the Gospel truth.
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And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
Matthew 24:10-13 ESV
and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
2 Timothy 4:4 ESV
There are other turning away passages and even an term called apostasy. There are people who walk away from the truth after being raised in the truth. Your colleges are doing a bang up job of destroying faith.
Matthew 24:10-13 ESV
and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
2 Timothy 4:4 ESV
There are other turning away passages and even an term called apostasy. There are people who walk away from the truth after being raised in the truth. Your colleges are doing a bang up job of destroying faith.
Is it possible to believe something, yet not accept it?
Like eating healthy, many people believe it is good for you. Still many choose not to do it.
I know people who say they believe in Jesus, but don't want to be saved. They like what their doing and don't want to change. Isn't this like the people in darkness, who choose not to come to the light because they don't want their sins to be reproved?
Like eating healthy, many people believe it is good for you. Still many choose not to do it.
I know people who say they believe in Jesus, but don't want to be saved. They like what their doing and don't want to change. Isn't this like the people in darkness, who choose not to come to the light because they don't want their sins to be reproved?
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I think that many people are in this category, that they know, they believe, and they still reject the truth.
But isn't there a difference between knowing you should do something but not doing it, and not even knowing in the first place?
So there is a difference between saying "I think the Bible is fairy tales and people made-up god, there is no such thing" versus saying "I really think there is a god, even Jesus, but I don't care"
Maybe I think eating activated charcoal isn't good for me, so I don't. Or maybe I do think it's good for me but I choose not to - - those are two different scenarios.
What getting at is that if it's like Jesus Himself explicitly said, that no one knows God except who God chooses to reveal Himself to, then it's not necessarily the case that salvation comes down to an individuals absolutely free choice. A person doesn't have that choice unless God first chooses to open their ear to hear and their heart to understand the gospel.
But isn't there a difference between knowing you should do something but not doing it, and not even knowing in the first place?
So there is a difference between saying "I think the Bible is fairy tales and people made-up god, there is no such thing" versus saying "I really think there is a god, even Jesus, but I don't care"
Maybe I think eating activated charcoal isn't good for me, so I don't. Or maybe I do think it's good for me but I choose not to - - those are two different scenarios.
What getting at is that if it's like Jesus Himself explicitly said, that no one knows God except who God chooses to reveal Himself to, then it's not necessarily the case that salvation comes down to an individuals absolutely free choice. A person doesn't have that choice unless God first chooses to open their ear to hear and their heart to understand the gospel.
When an evangelist comes to town and holds his big meeting, is he trying to manipulate people's will by convincing them to believe and to act on it?
I'm thinking of Charles Finney and the revivalist/great awakening movement. About altar calls and emotional sermons designed to evoke particular responses from the audience. Is it right? And who is doing the convincing?
And i am thinking how we pray for someone who is not saved, asking that they become a believer - aren't we asking God to change their will and cause them to believe when we pray for them?
I'm thinking of Charles Finney and the revivalist/great awakening movement. About altar calls and emotional sermons designed to evoke particular responses from the audience. Is it right? And who is doing the convincing?
And i am thinking how we pray for someone who is not saved, asking that they become a believer - aren't we asking God to change their will and cause them to believe when we pray for them?