Jesus Fully God and Fully man - Chalcedon

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phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#1
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#1
I think we are blessed to have such a rich history in Christian teaching, we stand on the shoulders of those who came before us.

Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge
one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ,
at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood,
truly God and truly man,
consisting also of a reasonable soul and body;
of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead,
and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood;
like us in all respects, apart from sin;

as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages,
but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the Godbearer;
one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten,
recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation;
the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union,
but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence,
not as parted or separated into two persons,
but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ;
even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us,
and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.
 
2ndTimothyGroup

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
#2
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,954
113
#2
phil36 said:
I think we are blessed to have such a rich history in Christian teaching, we stand on the shoulders of those who came before us.
Click to expand...
Really? I don't know of anyone that teaches the Truth . . . the actual Gospel of Jesus Christ. I mean it . . . not one person.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#3
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#3
phil36 said:
I think we are blessed to have such a rich history in Christian teaching, we stand on the shoulders of those who came before us.

Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge
one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ,
at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood,
truly God and truly man,
consisting also of a reasonable soul and body;
of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead,
and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood;
like us in all respects, apart from sin;

as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages,
but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the Godbearer;
one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten,
recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation;
the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union,
but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence,
not as parted or separated into two persons,
but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ;
even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us,
and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.
Click to expand...
Or we could just get that from the bible and not give up our sense making to so called ' giants of the faith ,' I see people following the finger that points and not the thing the pointer is pointing to (if that makes sense lol) We have whole denominations reciting like a mantra propositional creeds , statements of faith ect with no clue how to arrive at conclusions themselves ,because there not taught how to approach the bible. 0nly that they must agree with what that church has always considered 'orthodox '. Like an Avatar they then parrot the system/ paradigm without question.
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#4
Dec 20, 2017
9,386
5,725
113
#4
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Really? I don't know of anyone that teaches the Truth . . . the actual Gospel of Jesus Christ. I mean it . . . not one person.
Click to expand...
Wacky, fringe ideas abound in our day but that aside, perhaps your standards are too stringent?
Or you may be misjudging people?

To say there is not one teaching the truth is a bit extreme.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#6
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#6
Lucy-Pevensie said:
Wacky, fringe ideas abound in our day but that aside, perhaps your standards are too stringent?
Or you may be misjudging people?

To say there is not one teaching the truth is a bit extreme.
Click to expand...
I would make the case that Calvinsim is a wacky fringe idea that took off after Augustine . And here we are accepting it today and calling it orthodox .
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#7
Jul 31, 2013
37,921
13,607
113
#7
throughfaith said:
I would make the case that Calvinsim is a wacky fringe idea that took off after Augustine . And here we are accepting it today and calling it orthodox .
Click to expand...
On the other hand your hyperdispensationalism, which is what, only 120 years since it was ever preached? That's probably the eternal truth, you think?

Lol
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#8
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#8
posthuman said:
On the other hand your hyperdispensationalism, which is what, only 120 years since it was ever preached? That's probably the eternal truth, you think?

Lol
Click to expand...
But I don't claim to be a hyper dispensationalist . Now if I'm speaking to someone and they insist they are not a Calvinist then I will accept that. You might feel that I say things and your tracking them to a system you think I'm following. However I'm aiming for letting go of my presuppositions as I go . some things I say may agree with certain 'isms ' ( many things we all believe so do Catholics) but I'm not CLAIMING to be an ism or defending an ism . So my references to calvinists are usually in keeping with those who are proudly claiming to be a calvinist . At best I'd probably say I'm a ' i see what's different in the bible ist ' I don't mind being tracked to that.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#9
#9
throughfaith said:
Or we could just get that from the bible and not give up our sense making to so called ' giants of the faith ,' I see people following the finger that points and not the thing the pointer is pointing to (if that makes sense lol) We have whole denominations reciting like a mantra propositional creeds , statements of faith ect with no clue how to arrive at conclusions themselves ,because there not taught how to approach the bible. 0nly that they must agree with what that church has always considered 'orthodox '. Like an Avatar they then parrot the system/ paradigm without question.
Click to expand...
And yet we have a world full of "churches" that teach wrong understandings.
This video points out some examples how we get wrong.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#10
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#10
posthuman said:
On the other hand your hyperdispensationalism, which is what, only 120 years since it was ever preached? That's probably the eternal truth, you think?

Lol
Click to expand...
Are you a calvinist ?
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#11
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#11
phil36 said:
I think we are blessed to have such a rich history in Christian teaching, we stand on the shoulders of those who came before us.

Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge
one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ,
at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood,
truly God and truly man,
consisting also of a reasonable soul and body;
of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead,
and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood;
like us in all respects, apart from sin;

as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages,
but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the Godbearer;
one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten,
recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation;
the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union,
but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence,
not as parted or separated into two persons,
but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ;
even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us,
and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.
Click to expand...
Yes amen..I believe we need to recognize the full deity of Jesus Christ. Jesus is literally God. I think it is impossible to fully understand and place faith in Him without understanding who Jesus, the Son, is.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#12
#12
throughfaith said:
I would make the case that Calvinsim is a wacky fringe idea that took off after Augustine . And here we are accepting it today and calling it orthodox .
Click to expand...
Except for the heterodoxies contained with in that are clearly refuted by the Fathers of old, but they take their proof texts from the Bible and mix it with a little misunderstanding, and BAM! False doctrine.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#13
#13
posthuman said:
On the other hand your hyperdispensationalism, which is what, only 120 years since it was ever preached? That's probably the eternal truth, you think?

Lol
Click to expand...
Bingo, this type of dispensationalist nonsense is a perfect example of why we should study and understand according to what the ancient church believed, escatology is another.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#14
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#14
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Really? I don't know of anyone that teaches the Truth . . . the actual Gospel of Jesus Christ. I mean it . . . not one person.
Click to expand...
Really? Then perhaps your understanding of the "actual Gospel" might be flawed. So why don't you lay out your "actual Gospel" clearly and with supporting Scriptures?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#15
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#15
Blackpowderduelist said:
Bingo, this type of dispensationalist nonsense is a perfect example of why we should study and understand according to what the ancient church believed, escatology is another.
Click to expand...
It is not quite clear as to what you meant by "eschatology is another". If by "ancient church" you mean the Early Church Fathers, Christians should be fully aware that while they presented many good and excellent teachings, they also managed to insert some false teachings into their writings. As to eschatology, there was been more confusion than anything else. And while the Creeds and Confessions are widely accepted, our ultimate authority is the written Word of God -- the Holy Bible.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#16
#16
Blackpowderduelist said:
Bingo, this type of dispensationalist nonsense is a perfect example of why we should study and understand according to what the ancient church believed, escatology is another.
Click to expand...
So we should use the pagan church as a guide as to how we should interpret scripture?

Say it is not so

The jews tried this form of interpretation and it led them to crucify Christ.
 
K

KingdomBrat

Banned
#17
Oct 19, 2020
723
161
43
#17
eternally-gratefull said:
So we should use the pagan church as a guide as to how we should interpret scripture?

Say it is not so

The jews tried this form of interpretation and it led them to crucify Christ.
Click to expand...
No, the Jews knew the Tanakh like the back of their hand. Personally, I think God sent a [Delusion], much like He has in these latter and final days, where the jews could not recognize Yeshua as the Messiah. They accused Yeshua of Treason! Which they claimed Yeshua equaled Himself to God.

Now, You and I hopefully, after hearing Yeshua teach, perform Miracles, and can testify His character was a good and Godly one. But then again, If Yeshua came today, I doubt any of us would've accepted Him similar to the Jews of His day.
 
K

KingdomBrat

Banned
#18
Oct 19, 2020
723
161
43
#18
Blackpowderduelist said:
Bingo, this type of dispensationalist nonsense is a perfect example of why we should study and understand according to what the ancient church believed, escatology is another.
Click to expand...
I have went through the lineage after the Apostles, their own Disciples, and fully feel if John trusted Polycarp-Irenaeus-Papias then we should as well. I firmly believe that [core] turning at the turn of the 1st Century was smoking hot on Fire for God as we see John the Beloved as Bishop of the Church of Ephesus and Polycarp-Ireneaus-Papias in roles that I call the associate Pastors.

In my opinion, Christ ensured John would survive till just after the 1st Century so he and his Disciples would be teaching the hardcore Gospel of Christ. And to claim [[they were PAGAN]] just shows the TRUE IGNORANCE of today's minds!
 
K

KingdomBrat

Banned
#19
Oct 19, 2020
723
161
43
#19
If someone calls John and his disciples PAGAN, that someone desperately needs the re-infillment of the Holy Spirit like it was YESTERDAY!
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#20
#20
Nehemiah6 said:
It is not quite clear as to what you meant by "eschatology is another". If by "ancient church" you mean the Early Church Fathers, Christians should be fully aware that while they presented many good and excellent teachings, they also managed to insert some false teachings into their writings. As to eschatology, there was been more confusion than anything else. And while the Creeds and Confessions are widely accepted, our ultimate authority is the written Word of God -- the Holy Bible.
Click to expand...
I compared the modern idea of dispensationalism to the modern ideas of escatology, in that so many errors could be avoided if the ancient fathers writing were taken into study.

Of coarse they are not cannon of scripture and do not carry authority of scripture. However they carry more authority than Tim LaHay.
 
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