Regeneration in the Old Testament?

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ewq1938 said:
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


The implication is that being born again was not a new teaching and "masters" of OT scripture should have known this already. That means being born again is found in the OT:


1 Sam 10:6-9

6 And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
7 And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.
8 And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do.
9 And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.


Eze_18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Is being a another man and having a another heart (new man and new heart) after receiving the Holy Spirit the same as being born again? I say yes!


2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
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" The implication " This is the problem. Can God not communicate clearly?
 
ewq1938 said:
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?


The implication is that being born again was not a new teaching and "masters" of OT scripture should have known this already. That means being born again is found in the OT:


1 Sam 10:6-9

6 And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
7 And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.
8 And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do.
9 And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.


Eze_18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Is being a another man and having a another heart (new man and new heart) after receiving the Holy Spirit the same as being born again? I say yes!


2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
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The spirit of the Lord would come and go from a person. This is not regeneration. This is not new testament salvation where by we are SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION. eph 4.30
 
throughfaith said:
The spirit of the Lord would come and go from a person. This is not regeneration. This is not new testament salvation where by we are SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION. eph 4.30
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Eze_18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Isn't this what THEY have to do ? Again its not regeneration.
 
oldethennew said:
OMGoodness,
have you never read HEB. chapter 11???
you are completely deceived, so much so that u have dug your own pit -
we are praying that you listen and hear those in this thread that KNOW
where you are and why you are saying what you are saying -
we are praying for you and your family to be brought out of the 'cult'
that has totally deceived you...
Click to expand...
I'm praying for him to.

He's a stubborn one...
 
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throughfaith said:
Look again.
IF THOU shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God,TO KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS AND HIS STATUTES to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book OF THE LAW and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
[11] For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
[12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[14] But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest DO IT .

Rom 10

4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5¶FOR MOSES DESCRIBETH THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF THE LAW That the man which DOETH those things SHALL LIVE BY THEM .

6BUT !!! THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH!!!! SPEAKETH ON THIS WISE Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

7Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the WORD OF FAITH , which we preach;

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

How did you miss the difference ? its completely difference . Did you think it sounds the same that it must be the same?

One is keep the commandments and observe the law and DO IT

Romans 10 is the ' word of FAITH '
Beleiving from the heart .

Paul is deliberately contrasting the two ..He uses the OT verse diverts from it to show the difference. You missed it .
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I didn't miss anything.

It's literally frightening to see how willfully blind you are.

Let's try this again:

Romans chapter 10

[6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
[7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

In regard to "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH", Paul quoted what Moses said to the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy chapter 30

[11] For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
[12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[14] But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Furthermore, in relation to "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH" which Moses preached, Paul said that it was "THE WORD OF FAITH, WHICH WE PREACH", so spare me/us your nonsense about an alleged "contrast".

The only contrast here is between your blatant error and the truth of God's word.

The only reason why "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH" was missed by so many Israelites is the following:

"For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it." (Heb. 4:2)
 
Live4Him said:
I didn't miss anything.

It's literally frightening to see how willfully blind you are.

Let's try this again:

Romans chapter 10

[6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
[7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

In regard to "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH", Paul quoted what Moses said to the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy chapter 30

[11] For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
[12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[14] But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Furthermore, in relation to "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH" which Moses preached, Paul said that it was "THE WORD OF FAITH, WHICH WE PREACH", so spare me/us your nonsense about an alleged "contrast".

The only contrast here is between your blatant error and the truth of God's word.

The only reason why "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH" was missed by so many Israelites is the following:

"For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it." (Heb. 4:2)
Click to expand...
More bluster ,huffing and puffing but still no' regeneration '
 
Live4Him said:
I didn't miss anything.

It's literally frightening to see how willfully blind you are.

Let's try this again:

Romans chapter 10

[6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
[7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

In regard to "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH", Paul quoted what Moses said to the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy chapter 30

[11] For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
[12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[14] But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Furthermore, in relation to "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH" which Moses preached, Paul said that it was "THE WORD OF FAITH, WHICH WE PREACH", so spare me/us your nonsense about an alleged "contrast".

The only contrast here is between your blatant error and the truth of God's word.

The only reason why "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH" was missed by so many Israelites is the following:

"For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it." (Heb. 4:2)
Click to expand...
What do THEY have to DO in verse 14
Deu 30 ?
 
Here we are again. Influenced by Calvinsm , which has duped christians into believing they were regenerated in the OT . Without any scripture that says so . This is a problem .
 
The two methods of salvation have only two general commonalities: Old Testament saints had to believe what God said and then they had to act on it accordingly. You have to believe what God said about Jesus Christ and then you have to act on that information according to the Scriptures. Other than that, there are no similarities.
 
Live4Him said:
I didn't miss anything.

It's literally frightening to see how willfully blind you are.

Let's try this again:

Romans chapter 10

[6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
[7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

In regard to "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH", Paul quoted what Moses said to the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy chapter 30

[11] For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
[12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[14] But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Furthermore, in relation to "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH" which Moses preached, Paul said that it was "THE WORD OF FAITH, WHICH WE PREACH", so spare me/us your nonsense about an alleged "contrast".

The only contrast here is between your blatant error and the truth of God's word.

The only reason why "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH" was missed by so many Israelites is the following:

"For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it." (Heb. 4:2)
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Bluster , bluster, I'll huff and I.ll puff .....lol
 
throughfaith said:
Were they 'regenerated 'in the Old testament ?

Now often this is assumed . So for this discussion I'm looking for scripture. Not syllogisms as to why it 'must ' be the case . If it 'must be 'the case what scriptures do we find that says a person was regenerated in the OT . Not inference and the burden isn't on a person to prove that they were not regenerated . The burden is on those who positively claim they were .
Thoughts?
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We know Old Testament saints are saved but they were not regenerated until Jesus shed His blood to completely wash away their sins.

When they were regenerated then they could be with Jesus along with the New Testament saints for to be absent from the body is to be with the Lord.
 
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Heres the one verse ,some think supports regeneration in the OT .
Let's see ( verse 6 )
5And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

6And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

7¶And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.

8And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.

9And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:

10If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

11¶For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.

12It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

13Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

14But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

15¶See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

16In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

17But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

18I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.

19I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
 
Live4Him said:
I didn't miss anything.

It's literally frightening to see how willfully blind you are.

Let's try this again:

Romans chapter 10

[6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
[7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

In regard to "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH", Paul quoted what Moses said to the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy chapter 30

[11] For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
[12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[14] But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Furthermore, in relation to "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH" which Moses preached, Paul said that it was "THE WORD OF FAITH, WHICH WE PREACH", so spare me/us your nonsense about an alleged "contrast".

The only contrast here is between your blatant error and the truth of God's word.

The only reason why "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH" was missed by so many Israelites is the following:

"For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it." (Heb. 4:2)
Click to expand...
Sophisticated
Live4Him said:
I didn't miss anything.

It's literally frightening to see how willfully blind you are.

Let's try this again:

Romans chapter 10

[6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
[7] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

In regard to "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH", Paul quoted what Moses said to the children of Israel.

Deuteronomy chapter 30

[11] For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
[12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
[14] But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Furthermore, in relation to "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH" which Moses preached, Paul said that it was "THE WORD OF FAITH, WHICH WE PREACH", so spare me/us your nonsense about an alleged "contrast".

The only contrast here is between your blatant error and the truth of God's word.

The only reason why "THE RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS OF FAITH" was missed by so many Israelites is the following:

"For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it." (Heb. 4:2)
Click to expand...
So this is how we are saved today is it ?
10If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
 
Luke 22
32But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Why does Peter need to be converted here ? Question for Calvinists?
 
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9¶Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10¶Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

What should have Nicodemus have recognised or known in reference to what Jesus was saying?
No its not Ezekiel 36.24-28.
 
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