Regeneration in the Old Testament?

[Blik]

Regeneration is what every verse of scripture is about. In the garden of Eden, man did not know sin that killed, and as soon as this was made a part of us the Lord began regenerating through blood, and we know that blood was of Christ.

We know that sacrifice of blood was to be given for salvation of sin from the first, because Abel sacrificed with blood and was accepted, Cain sacrificed with the fruits of his own efforts and it was not accepted.

The Lord covered Adam and Eve's awareness of their own nakedness (after they became aware of sin) with the blood of animals and covered them with the skin of those animals.

The entire sacrificial system was a shadow of Christ, and we can learn of what Christ's blood does for us by studying this system. We are told that Christ fulfilled all the OT told of Him, Christ perfected the OT and made it complete for our use.

We are regenerated through Christ, and Christ is the theme of scripture. Man has divided scripture as before and after Christ, but God did not. Christ was from the beginning, as we learn in the very first verses of the gospel of John.

 

[Guojing]

I wouldn't know the year but it was in the past.



It's been happening for a long time. That it happens in the thousand years is no surprise.

But Israel the nation never acknowledged Christ as their Messiah, which was what Moses instructed them to do (Acts 3:22-23).

Currently the nation of Israel has fallen (Romans 11:11), so when you say "it was in the past", you are just taking as if it happened even though all the evidence points to the contrary?

 

[throughfaith]

The verses spoke of things that happened during OT times. Regeneration was not invented by the new covenant.

Its made possible through Jesus sending the Holy Spirit after his ascension..After the cross ...AFTER the resurrection. These things Jesus Actually did which ACTUALLY have causality. It wasn't just a show .

 

[ewq1938]

But Israel the nation never acknowledged Christ as their Messiah, which was what Moses instructed them to do (Acts 3:22-23).

That has nothing to do with the scripture we are discussing and it's also impossible to accept Christ before his first coming.

Currently the nation of Israel has fallen (Romans 11:11), so when you say "it was in the past", you are just taking as if it happened even though all the evidence points to the contrary?

People getting a new spirit and heart happened long ago. Yes, they rejected the Messiah for the most part and now those who reject Christ are need to accept him or be judged.

 

[ewq1938]

Its made possible through Jesus sending the Holy Spirit after his ascension..After the cross ...AFTER the resurrection. These things Jesus Actually did which ACTUALLY have causality. It wasn't just a show .

Regeneration was not invented by the new covenant. It was merely perfected by Christ.

 

[throughfaith]

Regeneration was not invented by the new covenant. It was merely perfected by Christ.

For which you have no scripture. Its called post hoc rationalization. This is what Calvinism did.

 

[throughfaith]

Regeneration was not invented by the new covenant. It was merely perfected by Christ.

///It was merely perfected by Christ/// What does this even mean ?

 

[throughfaith]

The verses spoke of things that happened during OT times. Regeneration was not invented by the new covenant.

What no believer in the OT had was a permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit . Also no one in the OT had Christ in them. No one was :
11¶In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

No one was
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

No one was :
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

No one in the OT .
30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemptio
No one :
Titus 3:5

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;”

All of this was made possible by Jesus. What he had to do through his death, burial and resurrection. Then sending the Holy Spirit.
Its utter nonsense ( calvinism,) to suggest this was happening in the OT .

 

[Guojing]

That has nothing to do with the scripture we are discussing and it's also impossible to accept Christ before his first coming.





People getting a new spirit and heart happened long ago. Yes, they rejected the Messiah for the most part and now those who reject Christ are need to accept him or be judged.

So you basically believe that Israel can get a new spirit and new heart, and yet lose it after they reject the Messiah? You don't regard the passage in Ezekiel as a permanent change like what Hebrews 8:8-12 implies?

Of course, Israel could not have accepted Jesus before he came. But Jesus used the parable of the tenants, one of my favorite parables to understand his first coming on Earth to Israel, in all 3 synoptic gospels. (Matthew 21:33-46; Mark 12:1-12; Luke 20:9-19) to illustrate Israel never followed the Covenant of Law, ever since Exodus 24

They killed all the prophets God sent to them during the OT to warn them to get back to the Covenant, as a result they were split into 2 kingdoms and remain in rebellion throughout the OT, as the parable indicated.

So I am saying your belief that that Ezekiel promise of new heart and new spirit never took place at anytime after Exodus 24.

 

[4ChristAlone]

2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Yes ' in Christ ' . After the giving of the Holy Spirit which was after the resurrection.

In Numbers 11:37 when Eldad and Medad prophesied in the camp, some young lad went to Moses to tell him to forbid it and Moses responded saying, "Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!"

A "new man" would be comparable to "another man"

1Sam 10:6 And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

1Sam 10:7 And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.

Then up further

1Sam 10:9 And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.

The Spirit was upon the prophets, but it would come to pass afterward, (Joel 2:29) that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. (Which is quoted by Peter in Acts 2:17)

Where we find Peter following that same course in Acts 2:38 -39 saying unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Again, as Moses said, Would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them
And in Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets and again, I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and again, 1Sam 10:6 And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man. The Spirit is spoken of throughout, being turned into another man, a patern of things like this.

 

[ewq1938]

For which you have no scripture.

I posted a lot of scripture. Please don't misrepresent me.

 

[ewq1938]

So you basically believe that Israel can get a new spirit and new heart, and yet lose it after they reject the Messiah?

No. Israel didn't get those new things, the people of Israel did but that's not passed on to children etc. You had to obey the law and love God to receive those things. There WA SA time when this was normal in Israel but there were also times when people fell away. The same type of thing happens in the Church now and has been since the start of the NT church.

You don't regard the passage in Ezekiel as a permanent change like what Hebrews 8:8-12 implies?

No and the NT concept of regeneration will also be lost in the endtimes via the Great Tribulation and the Apostasy. It's only permanent when one is made immortal.

So I am saying your belief that that Ezekiel promise of new heart and new spirit never took place at anytime after Exodus 24.

Here it is happening to someone:

1 Sam 10:6-9

6 And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
7 And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.
8 And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do.
9 And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.

 

[Guojing]

No. Israel didn't get those new things, the people of Israel did but that's not passed on to children etc. You had to obey the law and love God to receive those things. There WA SA time when this was normal in Israel but there were also times when people fell away. The same type of thing happens in the Church now and has been since the start of the NT church.





No and the NT concept of regeneration will also be lost in the endtimes via the Great Tribulation and the Apostasy. It's only permanent when one is made immortal.






Here it is happening to someone:

1 Sam 10:6-9

6 And the Spirit of the Lord will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
7 And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.
8 And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do.
9 And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.

I see, so basically you believe all these can be lost thru either negative actions, or lack of positive actions, after receiving it.

Alright then.

 

[ewq1938]

I see, so basically you believe all these can be lost thru either negative actions, or lack of positive actions, after receiving it.

Alright then.

Yes, it's called Apostasy. It's a horrible thing.

 

[throughfaith]

In Numbers 11:37 when Eldad and Medad prophesied in the camp, some young lad went to Moses to tell him to forbid it and Moses responded saying, "Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!"

A "new man" would be comparable to "another man"

1Sam 10:6 And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

1Sam 10:7 And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.

Then up further

1Sam 10:9 And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.

The Spirit was upon the prophets, but it would come to pass afterward, (Joel 2:29) that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. (Which is quoted by Peter in Acts 2:17)

Where we find Peter following that same course in Acts 2:38 -39 saying unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Again, as Moses said, Would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them
And in Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets and again, I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and again, 1Sam 10:6 And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man. The Spirit is spoken of throughout, being turned into another man, a patern of things like this.

Your not addressing my scriptures . So here this may help .

 

[throughfaith]

I posted a lot of scripture. Please don't misrepresent me.