Not By Works

[bellemira]

yes, so we should not fruit inspect. Because we can not really use this to know who is truly saved or not

Thank you.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Nope

Your telling me a person can be born of God. and then sin themselves out of salvation.

Your refusal to accept that the agape of a saint can turn cold and dead through replacing surrender to God with surrender to self is why you are seduced by OSAS's License to Sin.

Maybe one day you can read your Bible without skipping over Matthew 24:12-13 KJV.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Thank you.

Please don't listen to this person's unBiblical counsel. Leviticus 19:17-18 KJV not only says we are to warn a brother when he falls into sin, but failure to do so means we hate that brother:

Leviticus:

19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.​

19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD.​

​

1 John 3:15 KJV says if we hate our brother, we are guilty of murder, so such horrible counsel not only harms the erring brother, but incriminates ourselves.

 

[Phoneman-777]

nope, i am referring straight to you.

you tell others what they believe, and dismiss their answers when they tell you they do not believe that.
so, use your Bible and work on yourself, and stop judging others by your silly lordship salvation non-sense.

Oh, so you're one of those who want Jesus as your Savior, but not as your Lord?

Because He Himself asked why people call Him, Lord Lord, and don't obey His laws....

 

[Phoneman-777]

which circles back to my question that you dodged-

if my salvation , or lack thereof, is tied directly to how well i keep the Commands, then what is the amount of not doing so will disqualify me from it?

Salvation isn't tied to obedience, but surrender. Obedience is simply the evidence of whether we are or not. Surrendered people give up the right to govern themselves and submit to the authority of the government to which they've surrendered...they don't keep on fighting.

there has to be an exact formula that applies to every Christian. so, what is it?

3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God.

When a person climbs down to the pit of sin and takes a seat and swats away the uplifting hand of God and waves a OSAS License to Sin in His face, he knows full well what he's doing. The answer you are looking for is the longer we stubbornly refuse God's help to get back up, the more numb to the Holy Spirit we become until we are past the point of no return and incapable of repentance, which is what happened to Satan and his demons. You sear your conscious with a hot iron and it's over for you.

 

[tribesman]

So, your answer to my question is "No". Am I correct?

Goes without saying in a way. I mean, if no works at all, then what is there other than a mere profession? However, and this is the important matter, a christian does not focus on his own works as for his right standing with God, he focuses on Jesus and His work. Do not put the law where only the gospel fits. A christian life is not about demands and musts, it's about living a life of gratitude to God.

 

[tribesman]

yes, so we should not fruit inspect. Because we can not really use this to know who is truly saved or not

There's something to it. We are either God-centered or self-centered. Self-centeredness can never motivate works and obedience that pleases God.

 

[gb9]

Salvation isn't tied to obedience, but surrender. Obedience is simply the evidence of whether we are or not. Surrendered people give up the right to govern themselves and submit to the authority of the government to which they've surrendered...they don't keep on fighting.


3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God.

When a person climbs down to the pit of sin and takes a seat and swats away the uplifting hand of God and waves a OSAS License to Sin in His face, he knows full well what he's doing. The answer you are looking for is the longer we stubbornly refuse God's help to get back up, the more numb to the Holy Spirit we become until we are past the point of no return and incapable of repentance, which is what happened to Satan and his demons. You sear your conscious with a hot iron and it's over for you.

so, in other words, you cannot answer the question.


ok.

 

[Phoneman-777]

You are back on IGNORE.

Don't you threaten me with a good time!

 

[Phoneman-777]

As long as one is in this flesh on the earth, surrender to Jesus is not entirely complete because of the struggle with sin. One may overcome sin more through God’s power but will not ultimately stop sinning until going to heaven or when Jesus finally comes back. The more one can surrender to Jesus now the better.

I see it differently in that while we may struggle day to day with falling into sin seven times and getting back up, a true Christian is not going to continue in deliberate, habitual, known, iniquitous sin...he loves Jesus too much to keep doing it. Any person who continues in iniquity is either not saved or a saint in danger of killing off their agape which will render them incapable of enduring to the end.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Are you claiming sinlessness?

Are you claiming God's commandments are too grievous, which John insists otherwise?

Is there someone here you are accusing of deliberately, habitually, impenitently break the commandments?

I accuse no one - Scripture on the other hand is "quick and powerful" discerner of our thoughts and intents. We all know when we're doing wrong, but some of us choose to take responsibility, while others accommodate their wrongdoing by crafting for themselves a OSAS License to Sin.

Oh, right: you are a Sabbatarian. So anyone who worships God every day is breaking the commandments?

Of course, we should worship God everyday!

 

[Phoneman-777]

And not only that, but @Phoneman-777 your position is that the majority of people born of God have turned right around and sinned there way to hell, right?

I can't tell you what the numbers are, but only that Jesus said "many" saints will fail to "endure to the end" because the iniquity they practiced killed their agape cold and dead.

And that it's largely because they trust God to keep them and work in them instead of relying on their own willpower?

Saints who trust God to keep them and work in them are going to evidence that trust by keeping the commandments, will they not, according to 1 John 2:3-4 KJV?

That idea, if it is indeed the one being put forth, makes God very poor at saving people. In fact it makes God downright inept.

Is it the fault of the lifeboat if a rescued drowning victim jumps back into the raging sea?

As for myself I believe in the God who is mighty to save to the uttermost.

There are plenty of "saviors" in which the world believes: Matreya, TB Joshua, the Mormon Jesus, etc. It's just as important for us to believe correctly about Jesus as it is to believe in Jesus.

Jesus did not die to give humanity a License to keep on doing that which made necessary His death to begin with - He said "if ye continue in My Word -- not sin -- ye are My disciples indeed."

 

[Phoneman-777]

You preach to us that "self" has to "hold onto salvation" and you preach that those of us who believe in God's work and the work of the Holy Spirit from God who has "sealed us for eternity are following a "satanic" doctrine. Salvation is without "condition" because it is a gift from God to His fallen creation. You twist it all around in your dislike for what you call OSAS

As a non-Calvinist, I say both sin and salvation are a choice we make. Jesus had no advantage over us in resisting temptation, lest the devil seized upon that as a platform to accuse God of injustice a long time ago.

That's why Paul said in Hebrews 12 to us that when we think we're just gonna DIE if we don't indulge that darling sinful habit we love so much, look to Jesus and all He put up with. Paul says unless your fight against temptation is so fierce that you start sweating great drops of blood, he doesn't wanna hear one word about how "we can't keep the law".

 

[Phoneman-777]

Salvation is for all who will "accept the offer from Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." The offer is there but the "choice" is ours.

It's worth pointing out that offer is to save us "from" our sin, not in our sin, according to Scripture. We accept the offer by surrendering our will to His will and He gives us both Pardon for sin and Power to live for Him; a wonderfully beautiful arrangement that has absolutely no need of a OSAS License to Sin, just as no husband who loves his wife needs a license to fool around with other women.

 

[oyster67]

Why do people equate God's giving men the opportunity to walk away with weakness on God's part? God does not lock us into a bird cage like captured canaries. He desire more than just a bunch of canaries flitting around in Heaven. He desires to have faithful ones who have chosen to abide in the vine. The Word is very clear on this.

 

[Phoneman-777]

You are like a robot who has been taught only one sentence to speak. "license to sin." If we wanted to just sin, we wouldn't need a license. If we wanted to live a life disobeying Jesus, we would refuse His gift. One of the most disgusting actions is for a Christian to sit in the seat of judgment that only Our Lord and Savior is fit to occupy. The next most disgusting action is for a Christian to be so hypocritical and say how they "obey" God and yet continue to judge others.

If I'm a robot, then I'm a 1968 HAL compared to all the 2021 Honda Asimos running around yelling "Legalist!!!"

BTW, you should probably learn what it means to "judge" from a Biblical standpoint (hint: it isn't calling out false doctrine).

 

[Phoneman-777]

YOU GOT THAT FROM ME, I was the one that told you that because we were BORN AGAIN, that birth changed our Human Spirit to a Eternally Alive, human spirit that has Agape Love for GOD.

Yes, that happens with AGAPE love, right? The same agape Jesus said in Matthew 24:12-13 KJV the "many" are going to kill cold and dead by the practice of iniquity, leaving them unable to "endure unto the end", right or wrong?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Why do people equate God's giving men the opportunity to walk away with weakness on God's part? God does not lock us into a bird cage like captured canaries. He desire more than just a bunch of canaries flitting around in Heaven. He desires to have faithful ones who have chosen to abide in the vine. The Word is very clear on this.

Spiritual Immaturity is why. They are Courtyard Christians stuck outside fixated on the altar of burnt offering instead of taking their place with the rest of us beside our High Priest in the Sanctuary, stuck on the milk of the Word and unable to digest solid food, stuck between a decision to make a full surrender or trying to get by with a OSAS License to Sin.

I love 'em just the same

 

[oyster67]

God knows we are not capable of perfection, but He also knows we are capable of repenting when we err. We are capable of daily surrender and cross bearing. That is why He commands it...

Luke 9:23 And he said to [them] all, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

 

[Phoneman-777]

so, in other words, you cannot answer the question.


ok.

thought I did