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There is no New Testament command to pay tithes
- Thread starter Runningman
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L
Live4Him
Guest
The tithe was PRE-law, even as I already documented here in a previous post.
S
Scribe
Guest
What is your belief about giving to support the church?
Check your financial records from the past year. That's your philosophy on giving.
Did you spend more on McDonalds and Starbucks than you gave to support the church and Gospel preaching? That is where your heart is at. Wake up. The Bridegroom cometh!
Check your financial records from the past year. That's your philosophy on giving.
Did you spend more on McDonalds and Starbucks than you gave to support the church and Gospel preaching? That is where your heart is at. Wake up. The Bridegroom cometh!
Malachi 3:8 - “Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me. “But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’ “In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me. The whole nation of Israel. Malachi is written to Israel under the old covenant.
That same Pastor I mentioned in post #20 legalistically uses the 10% tithe to brow-beat people in that church with guilt. He even handed out pledge cards for people to fill out so they can pledge to give extra money on a monthly basis over a three year period above and beyond the 10% tithe directly to the "moving forward" project to build a new mega church. More than a few people have left that church because all that Pastor mainly talked about is money (primarily the 10% tithe) and building that new mega church.
During one sermon he even mentioned that a member of that church came into his office one day somewhat irate and said that he is leaving that church because he is tired of hearing about money all the time and needs to find a church where he can go deeper in the Word. The Pastor mentioned that the word "deeper" is a code word for "I'm not tithing 10%." The Pastor went on to say that he checked the records and sure enough that member of the church was not giving 10% and some months gave nothing at all and then acted like good riddance to him!
I believe that we should give money to our church and whatever amount of money that we wish to give is between us and God, but we should not turn giving into a 'legalistic prescription.'
...
I'm sure that it won't be long until someone comes along and accuses us of being cheap, or greedy, or both.
Y'all are cheap and greedy!!!Just kidding.
S
Scribe
Guest
Organization, financial management and budgeting is not unspiritual. We usually consider it part of being a mature responsible adult.
If your church suggests that each person bring a tithe of their income each week in order to support the church's mission to evangelize the community then it is a sign of an organized, effective plan to accomplish the task.
Give whatever / whenever is a bit chaotic and usually results in "I'll give later" syndrome.
When someone is committed to their local fellowship as their family that they do everything with they will see their 10% regular contribution as the same kind of communal contribution as they read about in the book of Acts. Each bringing something on a consistent basis instead of a chaotic unpredictable fashion that can't be used to budget anything on.
Lots of opinions and philosophies on this topic but when it comes down to making real life and ministry work and planning budgets a plan is necessary and 10% is a great plan. Why not just get behind the pastor's vision and together as a local church evangelize the community by funding it with 10% of each member? A 10% plan is better than no plan.
The 10% contribution from each member to support the work of the ministry of the local church to evangelize the world is a plan that is not going away. It is here to stay. In considering the theology of this plan don't you think that the love principle of joining with your brothers and sisters in a local fellowship to contribute to that plan to fund the work of the ministry and to make that local fellowship your core family and to work together to reach your community is much more important to God than whether the 10% is mentioned in the New Testament as the amount to give? Who CARES!!!! Just cooperate with your local family to get the job done!!!
If you are neglecting your involvement with the local church because they teach tithing is a good principle to follow to meet the budget of the church and you think it is not spelled out exactly like that in the New Testament you are committing a much more grievous error by neglecting the assembling of yourself with the body of Christ and violating the law of love by doing so. You might be guilty of straining a gnat and swallowing a camel.
If your church suggests that each person bring a tithe of their income each week in order to support the church's mission to evangelize the community then it is a sign of an organized, effective plan to accomplish the task.
Give whatever / whenever is a bit chaotic and usually results in "I'll give later" syndrome.
When someone is committed to their local fellowship as their family that they do everything with they will see their 10% regular contribution as the same kind of communal contribution as they read about in the book of Acts. Each bringing something on a consistent basis instead of a chaotic unpredictable fashion that can't be used to budget anything on.
Lots of opinions and philosophies on this topic but when it comes down to making real life and ministry work and planning budgets a plan is necessary and 10% is a great plan. Why not just get behind the pastor's vision and together as a local church evangelize the community by funding it with 10% of each member? A 10% plan is better than no plan.
The 10% contribution from each member to support the work of the ministry of the local church to evangelize the world is a plan that is not going away. It is here to stay. In considering the theology of this plan don't you think that the love principle of joining with your brothers and sisters in a local fellowship to contribute to that plan to fund the work of the ministry and to make that local fellowship your core family and to work together to reach your community is much more important to God than whether the 10% is mentioned in the New Testament as the amount to give? Who CARES!!!! Just cooperate with your local family to get the job done!!!
If you are neglecting your involvement with the local church because they teach tithing is a good principle to follow to meet the budget of the church and you think it is not spelled out exactly like that in the New Testament you are committing a much more grievous error by neglecting the assembling of yourself with the body of Christ and violating the law of love by doing so. You might be guilty of straining a gnat and swallowing a camel.
B
Blackpowderduelist
Guest
Abraham giving a tenth of the spoils of war does not equate to the law of the tithe as preached in the churches as giving a tithe. Tithing as preached in modern evangelical churches is some kind of bastardized version of the law.
B
Blackpowderduelist
Guest
Malachi was talking about the law of the tithe. You're more than welcome to take your grain and livestock to the temple if you can find it. While you're at it, you're supposed to present yourself 3 times a year at the temple. Have fun with that, Law keeper.
L
Live4Him
Guest
I addressed this "bastardized version of the law" in my initial post here.
However, this does nothing to negate THE FACT that Jesus currently receives tithes:
"And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth." (Heb. 7:8)
Who is Jesus receiving tithes from if not from Christians?
How is he receiving tithes from Christians if they're not paying them?
I agree Paul avoids the law like the plague, and yet the scripture you lay out is a procedure for paying tithes [yet without a 10% cap]
I believe this scripture is God's way for us to be blest financially.
L
Live4Him
Guest
Abraham gave a tithe or tenth to MELCHIZEDEK, the priest of the most high God, whose priesthood foreshadowed Christ's priesthood.
Again, scripture tells us that Christ, our High Priest, now receives tithes.
Who is he receiving them from?
It's a simple question...even if people don't like the simple answer.
HEBREWS is ... written to Hebrews, (though of course all scripture is useful for our learning. )
Around the time Hebrews was written, we have evidence that Peter was still observing such things as the dietary laws and had an issue with mixing with gentiles, even after Jesus' ascension, and Paul was also observing some Jewish practices and observing the law, though he taught that believers are no longer bound by law - but were free to practice it of course, just to no longer rely on or trust in their observance to it, or fear the curses of it if they failed.
Israelites were not by default suddenly supposed to go against the law of Moses, even as believers. Tithing was a practice given to and commanded of Hebrews, I do not imagine they stopped observing these things just because Jesus had died and rose again. And if they continued, Jesus - their new great high priest - in the heavens as God- of course, would be in the position of receiving their tithes offerings as he always had been. He wouldn't despise or reject those who observed law, but rather commanded all to trust in Christ alone for salvation, with or without the law.
Romans is full of the matter of who is under law and who is not and why we should let each do as they are convicted to do on such matters. There would still be those who paid tithes. It was a part of their heritage and normal jewish practice and they had no reason to stop even if they believed on the Lord for salvation.
Abrahams example of giving a tenth to Melchesidec was a choice he made, simply to give generously because he wanted to, it was never commanded of him as far as we have evidence in scripture. Moses made tithing law and only then it was a command to the hebrews.
yet another view on this is that it refers to christ AS Melchezidek , who review tithes of men at the time he appeared as that priest, but who still lives today unlike the priests now in the temple.
L
Live4Him
Guest
I'm sorry, but neither of your attempted dismissals of the truth stand up under the slightest bit of scrutiny.
In reality, the author of the epistle to the Hebrews was talking about Christ's role as a NEW TESTAMENT HIGH PRIEST who was "after the order of Melchizedek", just as had been prophesied in the book of Psalms:
Psalm 110
[1] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
[2] The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
[3] Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
[4] The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
When Jesus ascended back to the Father, he took his rightful seat at the Father's right hand as our High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, AND HE NOW RECEIVES TITHES FROM THERE.
^^^THIS^^^ is what the epistle to the Hebrews actually teaches...no matte how unpalatable it may be for tight-fisted "believers".
There are only two mentions of tithing prior to the Law. Abraham tithed one time on war spoils, not on income. Jacob vowed to tithe, but there is no evidence in Scripture that he fulfilled his vow. The command to tithe was given through Moses, as part of the Law.
In contrast, circumcision was commanded of Abraham, prior to the Law, but is not required of Christians.
There is no valid reason to conclude that tithing, not having been commanded prior to the Law, is required of Christians, when circumcision, which was commanded prior to the Law, is not required of Christians.
L
Live4Him
Guest
You people are too funny.
Again, Abraham payed his tithes to MELCHIZEDEK, the priest of the most high God, whose priesthood foreshadowed Christ's current priesthood in heaven. As I've already documented more than once here, Jesus, as our high priest "after the order of Melchizedek, now receives tithes.
Who is he receiving them from?
Apparently, not from you or others here who ignore portions of scripture which challenge their present manners of giving.
To each his/her own.
That is not what it's saying!
The passage is distinguishing the priesthood of Melchizedek from that of the Levites, and declaring that M's priesthood is of a much greater status. It says nothing whatsoever about Jesus receiving tithes. I would encourage you to look at the passage much more carefully, without any preconceived ideas.
L