How to be Born Again
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The point is "Israel the nation is not currently under the New Covenant that was promised to them in Hebrews 8:8 and Jeremiah 31:31".
Since you insist that you reject replacement theology, you cannot say that the Body of Christ, which is us, has taken over as recipients of that promised New Covenant to Israel.
Since you insist that you reject replacement theology, you cannot say that the Body of Christ, which is us, has taken over as recipients of that promised New Covenant to Israel.
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Snide aside, what's your point here?
Yes, both are salvation verses.
Yes. And the OT Scriptures revealed Him to be their savior.
I would like to introduce you to Isa 53 then.
What, exactly, do you think this "mystery" even is?
So, when's the happy day?
OK, could you just finally say WHEN the NC will be made with Israel, since this seems to be your major focus.
Yes, both are salvation verses.
Yes. And the OT Scriptures revealed Him to be their savior.
I would like to introduce you to Isa 53 then.
What, exactly, do you think this "mystery" even is?
So, when's the happy day?
OK, could you just finally say WHEN the NC will be made with Israel, since this seems to be your major focus.
I am saying we gentiles are saved by being in Christ, thru being in the Body of Christ.
As a result we have salvation of sins NOW (Ephesians 1:7).
We are not under ANY covenant with God. This salvation we get now, thru the fall of Israel, is by pure grace from God
Thus we are not saved thru the NC, and there is no need to be unhappy about that.
Because, if we are under the NC stated in Hebrews 8:8-12, we will only get salvation from our sins IN THE FUTURE, when Jesus returns for Israel.
As a result we have salvation of sins NOW (Ephesians 1:7).
We are not under ANY covenant with God. This salvation we get now, thru the fall of Israel, is by pure grace from God
Thus we are not saved thru the NC, and there is no need to be unhappy about that.
Because, if we are under the NC stated in Hebrews 8:8-12, we will only get salvation from our sins IN THE FUTURE, when Jesus returns for Israel.
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FreeGrace2 said:
OK, could you just finally say WHEN the NC will be made with Israel, since this seems to be your major focus.
Why is this so all fired important to you?
OK, could you just finally say WHEN the NC will be made with Israel, since this seems to be your major focus.
Why is this so all fired important to you?
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Well you asked me a question, and I answered it.
When we first started this exchange, it began with this post of yours
https://christianchat.com/threads/how-to-be-born-again.198023/post-4516823
For Israel, their eternal life/forgiveness of sins, comes in the future.
When we first started this exchange, it began with this post of yours
https://christianchat.com/threads/how-to-be-born-again.198023/post-4516823
For Israel, their eternal life/forgiveness of sins, comes in the future.
OK. Now, so what? Again, what's your point about this?
So, how are Jews saved?
So no Jew does NOW?
I'm not unhappy about anything.
You guys are just so confused. Paul was extremely clear about the fact that ALL believers are saved by being in Christ, regardless of ethnicity.
Do you believe this verse?
Gal 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
It seems to me that neither of you do. You've got Israel all being saved after Christ returns. But Paul clearly said that believers are "all one in Christ", and ethnicity is IRRELEVANT for salvation.
Salvation is NOW for all who believe in Jesus Christ for salvation.
Paul was also very clear here:
Rom 30
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—
26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.
28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,
30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.
31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
You guys have given a clear impression that you do NOT believe Romans 3.
So, how are Jews saved?
So no Jew does NOW?
I'm not unhappy about anything.
You guys are just so confused. Paul was extremely clear about the fact that ALL believers are saved by being in Christ, regardless of ethnicity.
Do you believe this verse?
Gal 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
It seems to me that neither of you do. You've got Israel all being saved after Christ returns. But Paul clearly said that believers are "all one in Christ", and ethnicity is IRRELEVANT for salvation.
Salvation is NOW for all who believe in Jesus Christ for salvation.
Paul was also very clear here:
Rom 30
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—
26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.
28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,
30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.
31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
You guys have given a clear impression that you do NOT believe Romans 3.
I find it interesting that you insist that you are not into replacement theology.
Yet the doctrine you hold does not separate the Body of Christ from the nation Israel.
There is a difference between in Christ, and in the Body of Christ.
What Paul wrote in his epistles is for the Body of Christ, where yes, there is neither Jew nor gentile.
Once Israel the nation fell in Acts 7, all Jews are now uncircumcised in the eyes of God (Acts 7:51), and all Jews, if they want to be saved after the fall of Israel, must be like us, saved thru the revelation of the mystery revealed to Paul.
But the nation of Israel still has a coming future destiny with God.
Your error is that you want to make their promised New Covenant, which is in their future, part of what Paul is preaching to us.
If you truly reject replacement theology, you cannot do that at the same time.
Yet the doctrine you hold does not separate the Body of Christ from the nation Israel.
There is a difference between in Christ, and in the Body of Christ.
What Paul wrote in his epistles is for the Body of Christ, where yes, there is neither Jew nor gentile.
Once Israel the nation fell in Acts 7, all Jews are now uncircumcised in the eyes of God (Acts 7:51), and all Jews, if they want to be saved after the fall of Israel, must be like us, saved thru the revelation of the mystery revealed to Paul.
But the nation of Israel still has a coming future destiny with God.
Your error is that you want to make their promised New Covenant, which is in their future, part of what Paul is preaching to us.
If you truly reject replacement theology, you cannot do that at the same time.
I was responding to you saying these are connected :
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Is referring to this, you said ?
in Rom 2 :
14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Is referring to this, you said ?
in Rom 2 :
14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
It's totally unbiblical.
Why should it? Don't you believe what Paul wrote in Gal 3:28? I sure do.
OK, explain that.
Uh, no. what Paul wrote is for EVERY PERSON who has put their sole faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, whether Jew or Gentile.
Are you implying that no Jew today is saved, nor can be??
Please answer my question.
I don't want to "make" anything.
Again, I'm NOT "making" anything.
I really have no idea what your theology is.
Can a Jew be saved TODAY or not?
Why should it? Don't you believe what Paul wrote in Gal 3:28? I sure do.
OK, explain that.
Uh, no. what Paul wrote is for EVERY PERSON who has put their sole faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, whether Jew or Gentile.
Are you implying that no Jew today is saved, nor can be??
Please answer my question.
I don't want to "make" anything.
Again, I'm NOT "making" anything.
I really have no idea what your theology is.
Can a Jew be saved TODAY or not?
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FreeGrace2 said:
Correct. My point is that God has given everyone a conscience to know right from wrong.
So, again, what's your point? Is there one?
This is not an answer to my question.
Are you able to answer or not?
Correct. My point is that God has given everyone a conscience to know right from wrong.
So, again, what's your point? Is there one?
This is not an answer to my question.
Are you able to answer or not?
FreeGrace2 said:
Correct. My point is that God has given everyone a conscience to know right from wrong.
So, again, what's your point? Is there one?
I ask you what your point is and you just quote Scripture.
Another non answer.
Can a Jew be saved TODAY or not?
Correct. My point is that God has given everyone a conscience to know right from wrong.
So, again, what's your point? Is there one?
I ask you what your point is and you just quote Scripture.
Another non answer.
Can a Jew be saved TODAY or not?
25¶For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28¶As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28¶As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
When what's the big deal here?
Everyone in humanity has ALWAYS been saved the same way.
There is no such thing as a "corporate salvation", or "nation saving" in the spiritual sense.
Yes, Jesus WILL deliver (save) the nation of Israel from annihilation when He returns at the Second Advent. But that's not soul salvation.
Where do you get the idea that ALL OT saints remain in "Paradise" for Jesus' Second Advent?
Jesus emptied Paradise, or Abraham's Bosom when He physically went there and "preached to the spirits".
1 Pet 3:19 - After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
1 Peter 4:6 - For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
Everyone in humanity has ALWAYS been saved the same way.
There is no such thing as a "corporate salvation", or "nation saving" in the spiritual sense.
Yes, Jesus WILL deliver (save) the nation of Israel from annihilation when He returns at the Second Advent. But that's not soul salvation.
Where do you get the idea that ALL OT saints remain in "Paradise" for Jesus' Second Advent?
Jesus emptied Paradise, or Abraham's Bosom when He physically went there and "preached to the spirits".
1 Pet 3:19 - After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits—
1 Peter 4:6 - For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.