The key to the Pre-Trib Rapture:

[Truth7t7]

Not so.

The "Tribulation" is for SEVEN Years.

Daniel 9:24-27
"Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy. Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple, he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." (NIV)


The Great Tribulation (Referring to the second half of the seven year period.)
Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (KJV)

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.


Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.

When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation has started.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Great Tribulation (Referring to the second half of the seven year period.)
Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (KJV)

Nothing in Matthew 24:21 Below states a time of 3.5 years, your out in the desert seeing mirages

Matthew 24:21KJV
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The Great Tribulation Starts When The Antichrist Is Revealed, He Is Given 42 Months or 3.5 Years

Revelation 13:5KJV
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

 

[Runningman]

Rev 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

This punctuating statement should make it clear that there is in fact multiple phases and categories of the first resurrection. As New Testament makes perfectly clear.

Yes the first resurrection after Jesus descends to Earth from heaven.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Jesus descends to the Earth on mount Zion in Revelation 14:1.

"We who are alive and remain" mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 are those living and breathing saints who will be harvested from the Earth.

Revelation 14:14-20 shows the harvest of the Earth and yes angels do the harvesting as mentioned numerous places in scripture such as Matthew 13:36-43.

Matthew 13:30 says the tares are harvested first.

The harvest of the wheat and tares is the rapture. Good rapture for saints, fire for wicked.

Where do the "we who are alive and remain" go after Jesus returns? Probably the millennial kingdom because the first resurrection doesn't happen until after the millennial kingdom ends.

The millennial kingdom appears to be spiritual (no occuring on earth) as far as I can tell.

Revelation 20:5
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

It gets confusing, by try to drop the assumption that the rapture occurs pre-tribulation.

The great tribulation happens in Revelation 13 and the return of Christ/harvest of wheat and tares occur after in Revelation 14.

I'm still seeing post-tribulation rapture.

The 7 plagues (Revelation 15) and first Six bowls of Wrath (Revelation 16) don't come until after Christ returns with His angels to harvest the Earth in Revelation 14.

The great tribulation isn't God's wrath. God's wrath begins Revelation 15 and onward so this is after the great tribulation.

The great tribulation is the devil's wrath because his time is short.

The devil is cast down to earth after the war in heaven just before the great tribulation:

Revelation 12:12
12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The whole point of the great tribulation on Earth is because the devil is basically very angry. This is why he makes war with the saints.

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus descends to the Earth on mount Zion in Revelation 14:1.

Your claim is false, Jesus returns in the second coming and final judgement to the Mount of Olives, not Zion as you claim.

Zechariah 14:4KJV
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

 

[Truth7t7]

The harvest of the wheat and tares is the rapture. Good rapture for saints, fire for wicked.

Where do the "we who are alive and remain" go after Jesus returns? Probably the millennial kingdom because the first resurrection doesn't happen until after the millennial kingdom ends.

The harvest of the wheat/tares is a "Parable" of the resurrection seen in John 5:28-29 this is the (End Of The World) final judgement

The lake of fire for the wicked, The eternal kingdom for the righteous.

The (Symbolic) 1,000 Year Millennual Kingdom That You Are Searching For, Is Taking Place Currently In The Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Second Coming And Eternal Kingdom.

Matthew 13:36-43KJV
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[Kolistus]

Rev 14 Is the last group of the first resurrection.

What about Revelation 20, that has a resurrection of the martyrs in the tribulation.

 

[Runningman]

The harvest of the wheat/tares is a "Parable" of the resurrection seen in John 5:28-29 this is the (End Of The World) final judgement

The lake of fire for the wicked, The eternal kingdom for the righteous.

The (Symbolic) 1,000 Year Millennual Kingdom That You Are Searching For, Is Taking Place Currently In The Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Second Coming And Eternal Kingdom.

Matthew 13:36-43KJV
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

According to Revelation 14, the harvest of the wheat and tares is "in the end of the world."

It isn't referring to the last moment, but rather in a general sense "the end."

There are more events that come after the wheat and tares. The great white throne judgement occurs after numerous other things and not until Revelation 20. This is why "it's in the end of the world." Not the last second of everything.

In your theory the earth is instantly dissolved by fervent heat and loud bangs at the return of Christ. Revelation, as a whole, paints a more drawn out timeline and sequence of events, but the earth does get replaces by a new earth and there's a new heaven too (Revelation 21)

I think we are in agreement that these things do, in fact, happen and that it's post-great tribulation but Jesus coming back by Revelation 14 to send His angels out to harvest is not "my teaching." It plainly says it in the scripture.

 

[Truth7t7]

In your theory the earth is instantly dissolved by fervent heat and loud bangs at the return of Christ. Revelation, as a whole, paints a more drawn out timeline and sequence of events, but the earth does get replaces by a new earth and there's a new heaven too (Revelation 21)

Its Not A Theory, But Scriptural Fact That You Deny.

What Are You Going To Do With All That Fire Seen Below In Scripture, "At The Second Coming" Of Jesus Christ, Pretend Like It Dosent Exist?

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Truth7t7]

According to Revelation 14, the harvest of the wheat and tares is "in the end of the world."

It isn't referring to the last moment, but rather in a general sense "the end."

Your claim is false again, as you add to scripture, replacing "IS" To "IN"

Read it again and again, Is The End Of This World.

(The Harvest "IS" The End Of This World)

The Final Judgement of "All" Is seen, as the wicked are judged to the furnace/Blake of fire, and the righteous enter the eternal kingdom

Matthew 13:36-42KJV
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[Major]

Nothing in Matthew 24:21 Below states a time of 3.5 years, your out in the desert seeing mirages

Matthew 24:21KJV
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The Great Tribulation Starts When The Antichrist Is Revealed, He Is Given 42 Months or 3.5 Years

Revelation 13:5KJV
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Do yu actually believe that your best argument is to deagrate those who do not agree with you?

The length of the Tribulation is seven years. This is determined by an understanding of the seventy weeks of Daniel 9:24-27.

The Great Tribulation is the last half of the Tribulation period, three and one-half years in length. It is distinguished from the Tribulation period because the Beast, or Antichrist, will be revealed, and the wrath of God will greatly intensify during this time. Thus, it is important at this point to emphasize that the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation are not synonymous terms.

I do not know if you are aware of this but within eschatology which is the study of future things, the Tribulation refers to the full seven-year period while the “Great Tribulation” refers to the second half of the Tribulation.

It is Christ Himself who used the phrase "Great Tribulation" with reference to the last half of the Tribulation. In Matt. 24:21, Jesus says, "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall."

In this verse Jesus is referring to the event of Matt. 24:15, which describes the revealing of the abomination of desolation, the man also known as the Antichrist. Also, Jesus in Matthew 24:29-30 .......
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days . . . the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory." In this passage, Jesus defines the Great Tribulation (v.21) as beginning with the revealing of the abomination of desolation (v.15) and ending with Christ’s second coming (v.30).

I hope this helps your understanding.

 

[Truth7t7]

I think we are in agreement that these things do, in fact, happen and that it's post-great tribulation but Jesus coming back by Revelation 14 to send His angels out to harvest is not "my teaching." It plainly says it in the scripture.

Revelation 14 in the Sickle Harvest, is nothing more than the (Second Coming) Last Day Resurrection, Seen Throughout Scripture (Multiple Times)

The angel had power over (FIRE) that will take place as posted above in #348 (Dissolved, The End)

Revelation 14:17-19KJV
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

 

[Major]

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.


Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.

When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation has started.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I do not know of anyone who believes what your opinion is of Daniel.

Daniel was talking in YEARS not days my friend.

Because Israel failed to repent of the sin which caused the captivity, the law called for an additional 490 years of punishment. This prophecy involved exactly 490 years or the period of time that Israel should have been punished. This 490 period can be looked at as probationary time.

The people were allowed back in the land and Israel was again formed; however, the people did receive punishment as the kingdom was taken away. Additionally, for approximately 2500 years, from 586 BC until 1948, the nation was under the authority of a foreign power. Israel never again had a king from the messianic line of David to sit and rule.

In Daniel 9:24, the time frame for the prophecy was set for 70 weeks. The Hebrew word for week, shabuwa, literally means seven. The context determines whether it means weeks of a month or it could mean seven of years. The context of Daniel 9 determines it meant seven of years or 70x7 (weeks of years) which would equal 490 years. The 490 years also perfectly matches the period of time for the additional punishment under the law of Moses.

The idea that this Hebrew word for week could mean seven years can be seen when Jacob was taking a wife. He was tricked into marrying Leah, but he actually wanted to marry Rachel her sister. He was then told he would have to work one week (shabuwa) for Rachel which actually was seven years. Jacob agreed to work for the seven years, and he was given Rachel to marry. The Scriptures to show this follow:


Genesis 29:26 “And Laban said, It must not be so done in our country, to give the younger before the firstborn. (27) Fulfil her week, and we will give thee this also for the service which thou shalt serve with me yet seven other years. (28) And Jacob did so, and fulfilled her week: and he gave him Rachel his daughter to wife also.”

Now any elementry student can undersatnd Daniel 9:2 which explains the WEEKS and then being YEARS..............
"In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

 

[Runningman]

Its Not A Theory, But Scriptural Fact That You Deny.

What Are You Going To Do With All That Fire Seen Below In Scripture, "At The Second Coming" Of Jesus Christ, Pretend Like It Dosent Exist?

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Nah it won't be instantly at the return of Christ that the Earth is destroyed. It doesn't say that when Christ returns this happens.

Christ returns immediately after the tribulation, then the angels are sent out to gather the elect: Matthew 24 and Revelation 13 & 14 follow this sequence of events.

The angels will reap the wheat and tares
The fire and all that does come, but the church will be raptured out before that. Destruction to the Earth and all the remaining people

Your claim is false again, as you add to scripture, replacing "IS" To "IN"

Read it again and again, Is The End Of This World.

(The Harvest "IS" The End Of This World)

The Final Judgement of "All" Is seen, as the wicked are judged to the furnace/Blake of fire, and the righteous enter the eternal kingdom

Matthew 13:36-42KJV
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 13:40 says "in the end of the world." Verse 39 seems to say it is definitely the end of the world.

So after Revelation 14 the rest of the Book of Revelation is all occuring in the spiritual realm seeing as how earth is melted away?

 

[Truth7t7]

The length of the Tribulation is seven years. This is determined by an understanding of the seventy weeks of Daniel 9:24-27.

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.

When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation has started.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Major]

Revelation 14 in the Sickle Harvest, is nothing more than the (Second Coming) Last Day Resurrection, Seen Throughout Scripture (Multiple Times)

The angel had power over (FIRE) that will take place as posted above in #348 (Dissolved, The End)

Revelation 14:17-19KJV
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Verses 14-20 is Johns view of Armageddon. It is a "PARENTHETICAL" set of scriptures. John goes from the beginning of the 1000 year rule of Christ in verses 1-5and then back to the last half of the 7 year Tribulation in verses 6-8.

His imagery is that of the ancient Palestinian farmer who gathers grapes for his ripe grapes into a winepress and then smashes them with his bare feet to realease the juice.

This same pictures is also seen in Is. 63:1-6, Joel 3 and Zech. 12-14.

 

[Major]

A Kroc is a Kroc, and I denounce the teaching you present, not you

That is funny. I feel the very same way about the false and uneducated manner of your presentations as well.

 

[Major]

Your claim is false, Jesus returns in the second coming and final judgement to the Mount of Olives, not Zion as you claim.

Zechariah 14:4KJV
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Now that is a correct Biblical post!

 

[Truth7t7]

Nah it won't be instantly at the return of Christ that the Earth is destroyed. It doesn't say that when Christ returns this happens.

Christ returns immediately after the tribulation, then the angels are sent out to gather the elect: Matthew 24 and Revelation 13 & 14 follow this sequence of events.

The angels will reap the wheat and tares
The fire and all that does come, but the church will be raptured out before that. Destruction to the Earth and all the remaining people


Matthew 13:40 says "in the end of the world." Verse 39 seems to say it is definitely the end of the world.

So after Revelation 14 the rest of the Book of Revelation is all occuring in the spiritual realm seeing as how earth is melted away?

Yes Matthew 13:39 states (The Harvest Is The End Of The World) and you will continue to teach otherwise, just as you deny the Lords second coming in fire, dissolving the heavens and earth, before your eyes, when the Lord is revealed, appears, comes, its fire time (Denial)

You openly agree it states (The Harvest Is The End Of The World) and teach otherwise?

 

[Major]

I asked a serious question, you didn't respectfully identify you translation used

Children's Paraphrase, JW's New World Translation?

Actually I have not seen a respectful and serious post from you at all.

 

[Runningman]

Yes Matthew 13:39 states (The Harvest Is The End Of The World) and you will continue to teach otherwise, just as you deny the Lords second coming in fire, dissolving the heavens and earth, before your eyes, when the Lord is revealed, appears, comes, its fire time (Denial)

You openly agree it states (The Harvest Is The End Of The World) and teach otherwise?

I wasn't factoring that in in my previous teachings. I have no problem changing my doctrine to include it now that I'm aware of it.

I'm only concerned with what the scripture teaches. There is A LOT of material to cover here and it gets confusing sometimes.

Don't you learn anything from these discussions too?