Does anyone understand

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Guojing said:
Yes I understand they are relevant for our learning.

I was asking you, "Should a Christian take their salvation doctrine from those books"? Is your answer a yes or no?
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Those books do inform our salvation doctrine.

, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord .
Leviticus 19:18

Sound familiar to a teaching of Jesus? Then Followed up with "I am the Lord". This informs our understanding of who Christ is.
 
Runningman said:
Not really because there's a lot more verses where Jesus spread His initial ministry that was focused solely on Jews to the Gentiles.

If you keep reading past Matthew 15:24 He actually ends up helping the Samaritan woman because of her great faith: Matthew 15:28

Keeping reading past Romans 15:8 to the verse next verse about the Gentiles glorifying God: "For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name."

Isaiah 42:6
Luke 7:1-10
John 4
John 10:16
1 John 2:2
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So basically you regard the entire bible as written TO you, alright then.
 
Guojing said:
Peter already stated in Acts 2, which was after the cross,

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
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The word 'ascended' in that verse is referring to a bodily ascension.
 
GaryA said:
The word 'ascended' in that verse is referring to a bodily ascension.
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I realized this is a common doctrine held by people who wants to believe that all the OT saints are currently in heaven.

You don't believe that our true identity is our spirit?

The body you and I are living in right now is only a house that contains that spirit.

We will leave the this corrupted house behind when Jesus returns again (1 Cor 15:50-55)
 
Guojing said:
If I am a gentile, I would think Romans 11:13 made it pretty clear who I should get my salvation doctrine from.
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Yes - Jesus! :D

There is only one Gospel - the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And, Paul preached and taught that very same one-and-only Gospel to the gentiles.
 
GaryA said:
Yes - Jesus! :D

There is only one Gospel - the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And, Paul preached and taught that very same one-and-only Gospel to the gentiles.
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Yes, I realized that the safest way to maintain that doctrine, is to just say "The gospel is about the Lord Jesus Christ", and keep repeating that ad nauseum when people ask you "What do I need to believe about Christ" to be saved?

I am fine, its such a popular doctrine here that I have learn to agree to disagree ;)

But for me, I prefer to think in terms of this https://christianchat.com/threads/prophecy-vs-mystery-since-the-world-began.186597/post-3994990
 
Guojing said:
If I title a book call "Cantonese", do you think it is likely to be written to African Americans?
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Normally, a book title describes what it is about and not the intended audience.

I could write a book called 'Christianity' - intended to be read by athiests - to help them understand what Christianity is all about.

I could write a book called 'Athiests' - intended to be read by Christians - to help them be a better witness to athiests.

The title of a book does not automatically indicate the intended audience; however, it should indicate in some way something to which the contents is related.
 
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GaryA said:
The word 'ascended' in that verse is referring to a bodily ascension.
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Thank you for that Gary. I just finished up some study and logged on to answer but you got here first. Thanks again.
 
Magenta said:
I would be extremely hesitant (that is putting it mildly) to say God is lonely as if He were in want of anything.

He is complete unto Himself. It is us who must find our completion in Him.
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God WANTS a relationship with us so much that He prepared a sacrifice to save us..... yet, what is man that God is mindful of him? :unsure:

Why create all these world, realms, universes, galaxies, angelic beings, demonic beings, the unseen and the seen.....and He WANTS His creation to KNOW and LOVE Him.....if we don’t, the “fire of His jealousy” gets kindled...

Sounds to me He absolutely refuses to live without us.... God can feel loneliness and He doesn’t like it. :love:(y)
 
Guojing said:
What if I also use scripture like

Matthew 15:24
Romans 15:8
Acts 22:21.

Would it strengthen my stand?
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No - it would not.

None of those verses indicate any restrictions concerning to whom the Gospel message is intended.

The comment Jesus made in the Matthew verse is specific to His role in the overall plan of God and the time-of-the-moment. (first to Jew, then to Gentile; the crucifixion needed to happen before Gospel was sent out to the Gentiles)

Guojing said:
Am I now understanding Romans 11:13 in context?
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No - you are not.

Paul was the apostle of the Gentiles - not the savior of the Gentiles.

Jesus is the Savior of all who will believe upon His name and trust Him.

One Gospel message.

Paul was simply a conveyer of that Gospel message to the Gentiles.
 
GaryA said:
No - it would not.

None of those verses indicate any restrictions concerning to whom the Gospel message is intended.

The comment Jesus made in the Matthew verse is specific to His role in the overall plan of God and the time-of-the-moment. (first to Jew, then to Gentile; the crucifixion needed to happen before Gospel was sent out to the Gentiles)


No - you are not.

Paul was the apostle of the Gentiles - not the savior of the Gentiles.

Jesus is the Savior of all who will believe upon His name and trust Him.

One Gospel message.

Paul was simply a conveyer of that Gospel message to the Gentiles.
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So you believe Paul preached the exact same gospel that Jesus and the 12 were preaching in Matthew to Israel.

Would that be the correct conclusion to make?
 
Blackpowderduelist said:
And now you know how Bible interpretation is don't around here. It's a sad state of affairs.
We have " God is in need of something that we bring to the table crowd" the "two Jesus" crowd, " the everything in the bible is about me" people, and the judaizers, and apparently now mystics who subscribe to the "imagine God and heaven and good things equates to prayer, or informs prayer" . And everyone wonders why I left evangelicalism.
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Oh dear, I think it’s AWESOME that you have still maintained a sense of humor! Lol! :unsure::giggle::love:(y)
 
SophieT said:
And we're off. wait...it's YOU that is off

Discounting Hebrews. What a great idea. It's not for Christians in the here and now.

Been talked to death in other threads
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Why would we discount any of the bible ? even the parts that are not to us ? All of the bible ( every verse ) is FOR us , but not all is TO us .
 
oldman said:
Hebrews 12:22-24? Just how important it is?
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The "importance" of the passage is that the verses reveal the contrast between old covenant and new covenant. At the time Hebrews was written, the temple was still standing and there were some who held to the old covenant sacrificial system.

Hebrews 12:18 - 24 shows the contrast between Sinai (old covenant - earthly) and Zion (new covenant - heavenly):

From David Guzik's Commentary at Blue Letter Bible:

· Mount Sinai was marked by fear and terror – Mount Zion is a place of love and forgiveness.​
​
· Mount Sinai is in the desert – Mount Zion is the city of the Living God​
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· Mount Sinai spoke of earthly things – Mount Zion speaks of heavenly things.​
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· At Mount Sinai, only Moses was allowed to draw near to God – at Mount Zion, an innumerable company, a general assembly is invited to draw near.​
​
· Mount Sinai was characterized by guilty men in fear – Mount Zion features just men made perfect.​
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· At Mount Sinai, Moses was the mediator – at Mount Zion, Jesus is the mediator.​
​
· Mount Sinai brings an Old Covenant, which was ratified by the blood of animals – Mount Zion brings a New Covenant, which is ratified by the blood of God’s precious Son.​
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· Mount Sinai was all about exclusion, keeping people away from the mountain – Mount Zion is all about invitation.​
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· Mount Sinai is all about Law – Mount Zion is all about grace.​


And then once we understand the contrast, we are warned to not refuse the voice of Him Who calls and we are encouraged:

Hebrews 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear :cool:



 
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posthuman said:
what is the word that the blood of Abel speaks?
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It's referring to Gen 4:4 where God had respect unto Abel and to his offering. This is the first record of man bringing an offering to God. Both Cain and Abel brought their offerings. Cain's offering was not accepted.

Genesis 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering


We are come to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel (Heb 12:24).

The sprinkling of the blood of Jesus, the mediator of the new covenant, is more excellent than Abel's offering, even though Abel obtained witness that he was righteous:

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.



 
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reneweddaybyday said:
It's referring to Gen 4:4 where God had respect unto Abel and to his offering. This is the first record of man bringing an offering to God. Both Cain and Abel brought their offerings. Cain's offering was not accepted.

Genesis 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering


We are come to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel (Heb 12:24).

The sprinkling of the blood of Jesus, the mediator of the new covenant, is more excellent than Abel's offering, even though Abel obtained witness that he was righteous:

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
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thank you!
i agree

and isn't there also an aspect about it, how Abel's blood cries to God from the ground? ((Genesis 4:10))
as compared to how Christ brought His blood to the altar in heaven
 
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