How to be Born Again

[FreeGrace2]

All men by nature are in the flesh and cannot please God Rom 8:8

Got some news for you. Even believers who are out of fellowship cannot please God. Rom 8:8 applies to believers.

Ever heard of "grieving the Spirit" or "quenching the Spirit"? Those verses were written to believers, and they were told to NOT do those things.

Were you aware of that?

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Believers who grieve and/or quench the Spirit are acting fleshly. Paul even accused the Corinthian believers of being "in the flesh", or carnal.

So man naturally can never have the Faith that pleases God as per Heb 11:6 which is Salvaic Faith.

Did you even read the verse? Well, let's do that.

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Do you understand what "comes to Him" means? It means in faith.

The verse also tells us what man MUST BELIEVE in order to come to Him:
1. that He exists
2. that He reward those who earnestly seek Him

Where is election in that verse? It is non-existent.

And you are free to provide your own understanding and refute mine, if able.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Cornelius alone refutes Calvinism.
1¶There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,

2A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

3He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.

4¶And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

Excellent point.

And to prove further, Acts 11:14 says: He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’

This was part of Peter's defense for going to the home of a Gentile. Notice that "will be saved" is future tense.

This proves that Cornelius, a devout man who feared God, was NOT saved when Peter visited him.

But he WAS fulfilling Heb 11:6. He believed that God existed and that God rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

And God honored His seeking.

And there is NOTHING about God electing him to believe or anything else.

 

[FreeGrace2]

True. Faith comes as a fruit or result of regeneration.

That is NOT what the Bible says. The opposite is true.

Eph 2:5 - made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

It is clear that the red words are equated and synonymous. Being "made alive" refers to regeneration or the new birth.

iow, one cannot be saved and not regenerated. Nor can one be regeneated and not be saved. They go together.

Now the clincher:

Eph 2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

First, notice that the red words in v.8 are the exact same words that end v.5.

Second, notice that salvation (being regenerated) is THROUGH FAITH.

So, iow, the faith HAS TO BE PRESENT in order to be saved.

Therefore, regeneration and salvation are the RESULT of faith.

And this faith is not something that unregenerate man can chose to have, as unregenerate. Or chose NOT to have, once he is regenerated.

Let's get the wording right. No one "chooses to have faith". That is just a red herring.

What man DOES choose to do is take God at His word. It's also called faith, or trust.

When you drive over a bridge, you have already trusted that the bridge will hold you up.

Anyone who would drive over a bridge and doesn't trust that the bridge will hold them up is a fool and idiot.

Same for sitting in a chair. A common analogy used to illustrate salvation. However, sitting in the chair doesn't equate with salvation. Sitting in a chair only demonstrates the faith that is ALREADY THERE.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You say you do, but i cant see it.

We haven't seen any evidence from you regarding election being to salvation. Do you have any?

 

[brightfame52]

Its ' without faith ' Faith pleases God .

I just stated that.

 

[throughfaith]

Its referring to unbelievers, they're in the flesh. Believers arent in the flesh because the Spirit dwells in them Rom 8:9

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

IN yes . Walk yes also.

 

[brightfame52]

Noah , Enoch ect pleased God by Their obedience and faith. Fact .

They were born again, otherwise they could not have.

 

[throughfaith]

I just stated that.

So Cornelius pleased God prior to his regeneration?

 

[throughfaith]

They were born again, otherwise they could not have.

Begging the question . This is Calvinsim in a nut shell . All your beliefs are based on this faulty reasoning.

 

[throughfaith]

They were born again, otherwise they could not have.

Cornelius? care to explain. I.ll wait.

 

[throughfaith]

They were born again, otherwise they could not have.

Calvinism =" Well they must have been because ....." " well it doesn't say but I it must be because of ....

 

[tribesman]

That is NOT what the Bible says. The opposite is true.

Eph 2:5 - made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

It is clear that the red words are equated and synonymous. Being "made alive" refers to regeneration or the new birth.

iow, one cannot be saved and not regenerated. Nor can one be regeneated and not be saved. They go together.

Now the clincher:

Eph 2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

First, notice that the red words in v.8 are the exact same words that end v.5.

Second, notice that salvation (being regenerated) is THROUGH FAITH.

So, iow, the faith HAS TO BE PRESENT in order to be saved.

Therefore, regeneration and salvation are the RESULT of faith.


Let's get the wording right. No one "chooses to have faith". That is just a red herring.

What man DOES choose to do is take God at His word. It's also called faith, or trust.

When you drive over a bridge, you have already trusted that the bridge will hold you up.

Anyone who would drive over a bridge and doesn't trust that the bridge will hold them up is a fool and idiot.

Same for sitting in a chair. A common analogy used to illustrate salvation. However, sitting in the chair doesn't equate with salvation. Sitting in a chair only demonstrates the faith that is ALREADY THERE.

You are making faith conditional. Are you really saying that the natural man, at enmity with God and dead in trespasses and sins, is in and by himself able to work up a saving faith?

Christ was made a curse for His people so that they would receive the promise of the regenerating Spirit of God. The Spirit of regeneration precedes faith and produces faith as a FRUIT of salvation, and thus faith is not a condition of, or prerequisite to, salvation or justification.

Instead, faith believes that Jesus Christ alone met ALL THE CONDITIONS for salvation. Faith is an immediate and inevitable FRUIT, or result, of regeneration, and the instrument through which a believer receives the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ and is justified.

Luther and Calvin both taught that regeneration precedes faith. So did Whitefield, Edwards and others.

 

[notuptome]

You are making faith conditional. Are you really saying that the natural man, at enmity with God and dead in trespasses and sins, is in and by himself able to work up a saving faith?

Christ was made a curse for His people so that they would receive the promise of the regenerating Spirit of God. The Spirit of regeneration precedes faith and produces faith as a FRUIT of salvation, and thus faith is not a condition of, or prerequisite to, salvation or justification.

Instead, faith believes that Jesus Christ alone met ALL THE CONDITIONS for salvation. Faith is an immediate and inevitable FRUIT, or result, of regeneration, and the instrument through which a believer receives the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ and is justified.

Luther and Calvin both taught that regeneration precedes faith. So did Whitefield, Edwards and others.

Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God.

It is absurd to suggest that regeneration precedes faith and faith is a fruit of salvation. Bunk pure heretical bunk.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[tribesman]

They were born again, otherwise they could not have.

You are on deaf ears, we're dealing with contentious pie throwers and dishonest people here.

 

[tribesman]

And this false doctrine folly called "prevenient grace" is a wicked workaround to steal the glory of God in saving sinners and make salvation conditioned on the sinner and not on Christ ALONE.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You are making faith conditional.

Very good. Yes, I am. Because the Bible makes faith conditional upon salvation.

Are you aware of Paul's answer to the jailer's question: "sirs, what MUST I DO to be saved?"

He answered, "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you WILL BE SAVED."
Straight up. Salvation is conditioned upon faith.

This fact refutes the "U" in TULIP.

Are you really saying that the natural man, at enmity with God and dead in trespasses and sins, is in and by himself able to work up a saving faith?

No one "works up" any kind of faith. That is ridiculous. But calvinists have to come up with strange wordings in order to try to deflect from what the Bible says.

Have you ever "taken someone at their word"? Of course you have. Parents come to mind, for one.

Now, did you have to work up your faith in what your parents told you?

Do you see how silly that all sounds?

Christ was made a curse for His people so that they would receive the promise of the regenerating Spirit of God.

Actually, the Bible says that Christ died for everyone. So as long as you mean "everyone" when you said "his people" you are correct.

However, knowing calvinism and the view that Christ didn't die for everyone, could you please at least cite any verse that clearly indicates that He died ONLY for some?

The Spirit of regeneration precedes faith and produces faith as a FRUIT of salvation, and thus faith is not a condition of, or prerequisite to, salvation or justification.

This calvinist talking point is not found in Scripture.

Eph 2:5 - made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

The red words at the beginning refer to regeneration or the new birth. The blue words at the end of the verse makes clear what the red words mean. IOW, being "made alive" and being "saved" are SYNONYMOUS. They go together. You can't have one without the other. I challenge you to find any verse where a saved person was not regenerated or a regenerated person was not saved.

And while you are at it, please fine any verse that makes clear that regeneration precedes or is required in order to be saved.

Now, Eph 2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

First, notice that the blue phrase in v.8 is the EXACT SAME words at the end of v.5.

Second, notice the means of our salvation, which is THROUGH FAITH.

iow, faith MUST BE PRESENT in order to be saved. And since v.5 equates regeneration and salvation, v.8 proves that both salvation and regeneration ARE CONDITIONED on faith.

Clear as can be.

Instead, faith believes that Jesus Christ alone met ALL THE CONDITIONS for salvation.

This is true.

Faith is an immediate and inevitable FRUIT, or result, of regeneration

I just refuted this calvinist talking point.

and the instrument through which a believer receives the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ and is justified.

Yes, and is regenerated when a person believes FIRST.

Luther and Calvin both taught that regeneration precedes faith. So did Whitefield, Edwards and others.

And they are just as wrong as anyone else who believes what they believe.

Eph 2:5 and 8 prove the opposite. Regeneration and salvation are THROUGH FAITH.

Calvinism has it backward; that faith is through regeneration and salvation. Yet, no Bible verse says this.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You are on deaf ears, we're dealing with contentious pie throwers and dishonest people here.

So quoting Scriptures that refute calvinism equals being contentious and pie throwers, huh?

And how is quoting Scripture being dishonest?

Please answer. All you have done is deflect from the truth, rather than explain how the verses shown do NOT teach what I point out.

 

[brightfame52]

Cornelius pleased God in the sense of his prayers and alms to God were noticed . Then he was later regenerated and given the Holy spirit

He was regenerated. They who are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[brightfame52]

True. Faith comes as a fruit or result of regeneration. And this faith is not something that unregenerate man can chose to have, as unregenerate. Or chose NOT to have, once he is regenerated.

Exactly !

 

[brightfame52]

Yes believing is a spiritual ability, its the fruit of the Spirit