Revelation 17:8

[MattforJesus]

Did this beast receive it's deadly wound prior to the Revelation being given to John and it's writing according to the angel? https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17.htm

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

5 are fallen 1.Egypt 2.Assyria 3.Babylon 4.Medo-Persia 5.Greece.

1 is at the time John wrote Revelation 6.Roman Empire.

One is to come in the future 7.10 horn kingdom which is the world split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section which the Bible says they shall devour the earth, tread it down, and break it in pieces(Daniel 7:23).

Which the one to come shall continue for a short space which is three and one half years.

Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

8.The beast, antichrist, New Age Christ, which is of the 7 kingdoms for the devil influenced those kingdoms, and will rule for three and one half years.

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

The 10 kings have no received a kingdom yet so it is in the future and not in the first century.

They are not 10 kings that come one after the other spanning many years but they are all ruling together at the same time for they all together and at the same time give their power and strength unto the beast and that is how he gets control of the world.

The 10 horns, kings, cover the whole earth for it is the earth split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section.

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

The 7 heads are the same as the 7 kings, kingdoms in Revelation 17, and the 10 horns is the physical dominion of the beast.

The crowns are on the heads which means Satan in the spiritual realm deceiving people.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

In chapter 13 the crowns are on the horns Which means Satan in the physical realm deceiving people.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

One of the heads that was wounded is the 10 horn kingdom the world split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section which shall rule for three and one half years.

The 10 horn kingdom, 7th head, failed at providing peace for the world especially when the 6th trumpet happened which is Islam against the world which caused one third of the world to perish, and describes nuclear weapons, which in Daniel 7 it says that 3 horns was plucked up by the roots which is mainly the Arab nations, and other problems they could not handle.

After that war the world lost hope for there to be peace on earth, and they were in despair, but the beast gave them hope, and they regained confidence and the deadly wound was healed, and they turn to the New Age Christ as the solution to have peace on earth.

 

[GaryA]

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

5 are fallen 1.Egypt 2.Assyria 3.Babylon 4.Medo-Persia 5.Greece.

1 is at the time John wrote Revelation 6.Roman Empire.

One is to come in the future 7.10 horn kingdom which is the world split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section which the Bible says they shall devour the earth, tread it down, and break it in pieces(Daniel 7:23).

Which the one to come shall continue for a short space which is three and one half years.

Why do you think that "a short space" would necessarily have to be such a short period of time when the pattern set forth by the first six allow for a much longer period of time?

 

[ewq1938]

The 7 heads are the same as the 7 kings, kingdoms in Revelation 17, and the 10 horns is the physical dominion of the beast.

Good post but I disagree here. First, the symbolism of horns and heads are just like it is with real animals. The horns are placed in locations on heads making the heads not the 7 kings but the land areas where those ten horns/kings and kingdoms are located. It is those 7 lands areas that is the physical dominion of the beast empire with ten kingdoms spread throughout those areas. Likely the 7 heads are the 7 continents of the Earth symbolizing global control.

This has nothing to do with the 7 sequential kings/kingdoms where 6 have already fallen and we are waiting for the rise. None of those kingdoms exist at the same time but the ten horned beast does exist with 7 heads. None of them are fallen like how Revelation 17 explains about the 7 kings. There are some bad translations based upon some bad manuscripts that say the 7 heads are the 7 kings but other manuscripts do not make that claim. Indeed, the 7 heads are not also the 7 kings.

 

[ewq1938]

Why do you think that "a short space" would necessarily have to be such a short period of time

Because that is what it literal means.

G3641
ὀλίγος
oligos
Thayer Definition:
1) little, small, few
1a) of number: multitude, quantity, or size
1b) of time: short
1c) of degree or intensity: light, slight
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of uncertain affinity
Citing in TDNT: 5:171, 682


Same word is used here which is actually the same basic timeframe:

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

He knows he doesn't have a long time to do what he wants to the world which makes him so very angry. In the last verse of the chapter Satan goes off to begin the Great Tribulation which is a shortened period of time of great persecution and harm against the body of Christ.

 

[GaryA]

So - who are you saying the beast kingdom is - the 7th or the 8th?

If you agree with what @MattforJesus said above, then you must think the 7th rules for 3.5 years followed by the 8th ruling for 3.5 years?

 

[GaryA]

Because that is what it literal means.

G3641
ὀλίγος
oligos
Thayer Definition:
1) little, small, few
1a) of number: multitude, quantity, or size
1b) of time: short
1c) of degree or intensity: light, slight
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of uncertain affinity
Citing in TDNT: 5:171, 682


Same word is used here which is actually the same basic timeframe:

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

He knows he doesn't have a long time to do what he wants to the world which makes him so very angry. In the last verse of the chapter Satan goes off to begin the Great Tribulation which is a shortened period of time of great persecution and harm against the body of Christ.

So - in other words - it could be 5 minutes...

The word itself is relative --- it could mean:

~ nanoseconds
~ seconds
~ minutes
~ hours
~ days
~ weeks
~ years
~ centuries

In the context of Revelation 17:10, it could be centuries. Why? Because of the lengthy times of the other 'kings' mentioned in that verse.

(If you believe the list @MattforJesus gave above are represented by the 'kings' in that verse.)

 

[ewq1938]

So - in other words - it could be 5 minutes...

No because we know the Great Tribulation is 42 months and Satan was kicked out of heaven before that so his time to be free upon the Earth before being imprisoned is more than 3.5 years but we aren't told how much time passes from being kicked out of heaven until he starts that 42 month trib.

In the context of Revelation 17:10, it could be centuries. Why? Because of the lengthy times of the other 'kings' mentioned in that verse.

The other kings did last much longer but none were the same length and the 7th one has a much shorter time to rule than the previous. Just because the others were longer doesn't make the short time the 7th gets to somehow be long like the ones of the past. Jesus told us that the Great Tribulation was shortened so it's less time than it was originally going to be and originally it was 7 years which is pretty short anyways.

 

[GaryA]

And, what if - just, what if - Revelation 12:9 has already occurred? And, especially, a long time ago - like circa 70 A.D.?

 

[GaryA]

Jesus told us that the Great Tribulation was shortened so it's less time than it was originally going to be and originally it was 7 years which is pretty short anyways.

What makes you think that the 'Great Tribulation' was "originally" going to be 7 years?

 

[ewq1938]

What makes you think that the 'Great Tribulation' was "originally" going to be 7 years?

Something in Daniel about 7 weeks which most scholars interpret as 7 years. So shortening that down to half, 3.5 years or 42 months makes sense and fits that it was shortened as Christ said.

 

[GaryA]

Something in Daniel about 7 weeks which most scholars interpret as 7 years. So shortening that down to half, 3.5 years or 42 months makes sense and fits that it was shortened as Christ said.

And, what if "most scholars" have misinterpreted those verses?

What if those verses have absolutely nothing to do with the End Times Scenario?

What then?

 

[iamsoandso]

"Near",,,,"at hand" ect. is how the day of the Lord was spoken of in Scripture for hundreds of years before the birth of Jesus ... https://biblehub.com/interlinear/zephaniah/1-14.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/13-6.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/ezekiel/30-3.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/joel/3-14.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/joel/1-15.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/joel/2-1.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/obadiah/1-15.htm

 

[Ahwatukee]

No because we know the Great Tribulation is 42 months and Satan was kicked out of heaven before that so his time to be free upon the Earth before being imprisoned is more than 3.5 years but we aren't told how much time passes from being kicked out of heaven until he starts that 42 month trib.

Hello ewq1938,

The war in heaven where Satan and his angels are cast out and are restricted to the earth, has not yet taken place, but will in the middle of the seven years. The following scripture supports this fact:

"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where God had prepared a place for her to be nourished for 1,260 days."

"And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle to fly from the presence of the serpent to her place in the wilderness, where she was nourished for a time, and times, and half a time.

The 'time, times and half a time' and 1260 days, is the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. When the dragon/Satan sees that he has been cast to the earth, he pursues the woman/Israel where she cared for during that 1260 days.

That Satan being cast out of heaven as being a future event is also supported by Revelation 1:19 where John was told to write:

What you have seen = everything written from Revelation 1:1 thru 1:19

What is now = Represented by the letters to the churches, which also represents the entire church age.

What will take place later = All events which take place after the 'what is now,' i.e. after the church period.

We are currently living in the 'what is now' portion of what John was told to write. Once the Lord appears to gather his church, then the 'what must take place later' will begin. Revelation 4:1 is a prophetic allusion to where the church is gathered by that voice that sounds like a trumpet (Jesus), which says "come up here and I will show you what must take place after" which is synonymous with "what must take place later." Therefore, since Revelation 4:1 is where the church is gathered and which ends the church age and which hasn't happened yet, then all the events which take place afterwards, including Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven, are all future events.

In addition, Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven will be the result of the sounding of the 7th trumpet. And since the seals have not even been opened, which precede the trumpets, then that war in heaven spoken of in Revelation 12 could not have possibly happened. Not only that, but is also called the third woe, which would bring woes upon the people of the earth during that last 3 1/2 years.

Jesus told us that the Great Tribulation was shortened so it's less time than it was originally going to be and originally it was 7 years which is pretty short anyways.

The seven years has not been shortened. This is a misinterpretation of the scripture. The seven years is divided into two 3 1/2 year periods. The seven years will be initiated by that ruler, the antichrist, when he establishes his seven year covenant in part with Israel. The middle of the seven is marked by the setting up of the abomination in the temple. It is this last 3 1/2 years which is referred to as the great tribulation, which is where the beast will have come up from the Abyss and will be the power behind the man of lawlessness/antichrist. It is when he will proclaim himself to be God and is where he will begin to persecute Israel and the great tribulation saints.

When Jesus says "If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short." He is saying that if those last 3 1/2 years were allowed to go on any longer than that, no one would be left alive on the earth. He is not saying that the 3 1/2 years will be shortened. A better interpretation of the verse would be 'If those days were allowed to go on any longer than the specified time, then no one would survive.'

 

[GaryA]

"Near",,,,"at hand" ect. is how the day of the Lord was spoken of in Scripture for hundreds of years before the birth of Jesus ... https://biblehub.com/interlinear/zephaniah/1-14.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/13-6.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/ezekiel/30-3.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/joel/3-14.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/joel/1-15.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/joel/2-1.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/obadiah/1-15.htm

Thank you, brother!

I have been trying for a very long time to get people to understand this type of thing with regard to biblical prophecy.

God's prophecy must be looked at according to God's timing.

 

[ewq1938]

And, what if "most scholars" have misinterpreted those verses?

I don't think they did and like I said, God shortened the trib and since it's now 42 months, it was longer before that and the only evidence we have for a longer trib comes from Daniel. Where in the OT do you see the original length of the GT?

 

[iamsoandso]

Thank you, brother!

I have been trying for a very long time to get people to understand this type of thing with regard to biblical prophecy.

God's prophecy must be looked at according to God's timing.

Everyone seems to just click and drag things nowadays but it must not really be a real threat to the actual Devil or he would probably do something about it if what many are saying was anywhere correct. That would mean that the things on social media(YouTube,forums ect.) are just not that close though. I know I would not just blurt out the things I have studied with others in person on any public media concerning this subject.

 

[GaryA]

I don't think they did and like I said, God shortened the trib and since it's now 42 months, it was longer before that and the only evidence we have for a longer trib comes from Daniel. Where in the OT do you see the original length of the GT?

To each his own - we will all know for sure in time...

I don't - it's not specifically indicated or illustrated anywhere in the OT.

 

[GaryA]

And, what if "most scholars" have misinterpreted those verses?

Of course - I believe the seven weeks represent seven years. I was making the suggestion that "most scholars" have misinterpreted what specific seven years are being referred to.

What if those verses have absolutely nothing to do with the End Times Scenario?

What then?

Really important questions to consider...

 

[iamsoandso]

Toledot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledot "is the week of prophecy" https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/2-4.htm the Lord was cut off in the midst(half/approx.) of this week,,,the seven times of the earths generations from beginning to end.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Toledot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledot "is the week of prophecy" https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/2-4.htm the Lord was cut off in the midst(half/approx.) of this week,,,the seven times of the earths generations from beginning to end.

The scripture in Daniel is as follows:

7 Seven year periods (49 years) = To Restore and rebuild Jerusalem

62 seven year periods (434 years) = At the end of the sixty nine seven year period, the Messiah was cut off (Christ crucified)

The Lord was not cut off in the middle of the last seven year period, as He was crucified at the end of the sixty ninth seven year period. He is not even a part of the last seven years, which is still future.

"Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’

"Then after the sixty-two sevens the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing."

7 seven year periods to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, followed by 62 seven year periods making it 69 seven year periods, at the end of which the Messiah was cut off.

The last seven years stand separate from the other sixty-nine seven year periods, as it is still future. The Lord was crucified at the end of the sixty ninth seven and prior to the last seven years. Here is the information regarding the last seven years:

"He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

Who's the 'He' referred to in the scripture above? The answer to that can be found in the preceding verse 26, which is the last person mentioned: "The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Therefore, the 'He' who will confirm the covenant with many for one seven and will put an end to sacrifice and offering and will set up that abomination in the temple which causes the desolation (Israel's fleeing), will be 'the ruler' of the people, which is referring to the antichrist. The reference to 'until the end that is decreed is poured out on him," is referring to his destruction when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, where he and the false prophet are both cast into the lake of fire alive.

Jesus is not and cannot be the 'He' of the verse, as some have claimed. Jesus doesn't even enter into the last seven years, and that because He was cut off at the end of the sixty ninth seven and before the last seven year period has even begun.

After the church has been caught up and gathered to the Lord, that antichrist will establish his covenant, in part, with Israel. In the middle of that seven years, he will cause the sacrifices and offerings to cease and sets up that abomination within the temple, which tells us, that there is another temple coming, which will be afforded by the antichrist.