When you have to suppress yourself to be friends

[GaryA]

So they believe that only the books of Paul are valid for study and 'for us' (they believe in grace through faith alone salvation, which I agree). All other books in OT and NT are for Israel they say, and they are only for information purposes. They are not to be cross referenced, or studied for any benefit because they are 'not for us'.. This means that they do not consider any of the prophesies, including the book of Revelation as 'for us' or benefit to us, either. They believe that the Bride of Christ is Israel and not the Church. 'This is how they 'rightly divide the Word."

If I were to hear anyone say "Jesus is my savior." followed by (in essence) "But, nothing He said was important enough for me to pay any attention to." - I would think something was surely wrong somewhere...

 

[Magenta]

Thank you Magenta You make me feel really welcome! Thank you for your analysis, I really appreciate it!

You are welcome Not knowing anything really about the other person it is impossible to say, but it did very much sound like they were not as interested overall as you were. And almost like they were mining you for something...

 

[Magenta]

I'm definitely a gentle and sensitive soul...although if you saw my posts in the
Bible Discussion Forum, then you might think that I'm a sword-wielding maniac...lol.

Sword-wielding, yes. Maniac? Um, no, just a lover of God's Word and very passionate about it

 

[Lanolin]

I think its important to be yourself around friends that they like you for who you are not just what they want you to be...you are not going to be their mirror and echo back every single thing they say.

I mean if they want that they can go look in a mirror....I guess a lot of people fall into this trap and do subconciously expect people to be like themselves and get disappointed when they arent. if its like that then its kinda narcissism in action there. Lets call it for what it is.

which is kinda weird because we know we are not twins or clones or anything. Even amongst twins they will have differences. its not hurting anyone to have differences and to acknowledge them and to learn to appreciate them.

again letter to corinthians talks about this. We are all different members of one body Christ body. Even the holy spirit will give different (or divers) gifts to different people, not everyone will have the same.

 

[Lanolin]

I do find its kinda rude though when you are interested in somebody and you ask them questions (politely) but they dont really want to answer them or totally ignore you as if they havent heard.

I think as believers we can be just ready to answer any questions on the hope we have because well Jesus is the answer to most anything really!

I feel that I cant go deep with anyone who is not a believer in my conversations with them as they wont have any idea what Im talking about, or I have to explain something to their level of comprehension. some things as a believer you just KNOW without having to say much at all and your fellow believer will just get it straight away. But those who dont have the spirit just wouldnt understand as the natural man knows nothing about the spiritual man I guess.

 

[beammeup]

I'm definitely a gentle and sensitive soul...although if you saw my posts in the Bible Discussion Forum, then you might think that I'm a sword-wielding maniac...lol.

I honestly don't like conflict either, but God had to do a serious number on me to get me to change in that department. Basically, he showed me years ago that I was a man-pleaser, as opposed to being a God-pleaser, and that if I truly loved people, then conflict was inevitable at times.

I totally agree with your comment that "so much of who we are was formed in our early years", but, at the same time, the "new birth" can change even that.

If I could leave you with one verse of scripture that totally revolutionized my life in relation to the fear of man, then it would most definitely be the following:

"Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:" (I Peter 2:23)

My problem used to be that my self-worth was determined on a horizontal plane. In other words, I cared way too much about what other people thought about me, and I basically became whatever I needed to become in order to fit in or be accepted.

Now?

Like Jesus, my focus is constantly turned upwards, or on a vertical plane, in that I care what God himself, the righteous judge, thinks about me.

It may not seem like that big of an adjustment, but it literally changed my entire life.

Anyhow, this thread is supposed to be about you, and I know where you're coming from.

LOL haha re: sword wielding maniac! I'm sure you do it respectfully. But seriously, I think maybe your strong personality doesn't mind showing up in the things that you really care and are passionate about, and it outweighs the fear of conflict? But it sounds like you have overcome and healed from this, and are able to act, however, is appropriate for each occasion. and that is amazing. I really appreciate you giving me this scripture in 1 Peter, I will meditate on it daily as I do my Bible studies, as I still need some work of renewal within me. I've gone through seasons where I have been more stable, and then other seasons where I have experienced heavy loss, like I have currently been in, and I seem to struggle with it more, again. Thank you for sharing, it was helpful to me and I really appreciate it!

 

[beammeup]

I think its important to be yourself around friends that they like you for who you are not just what they want you to be...you are not going to be their mirror and echo back every single thing they say.

I mean if they want that they can go look in a mirror....I guess a lot of people fall into this trap and do subconciously expect people to be like themselves and get disappointed when they arent. if its like that then its kinda narcissism in action there. Lets call it for what it is.

which is kinda weird because we know we are not twins or clones or anything. Even amongst twins they will have differences. its not hurting anyone to have differences and to acknowledge them and to learn to appreciate them.

again letter to corinthians talks about this. We are all different members of one body Christ body. Even the holy spirit will give different (or divers) gifts to different people, not everyone will have the same.

I understand what you are saying about narcissism, and I totally agree with you! It's possible my friend has some narcissistic tendencies.. They do portray themselves as a victim often, too. Aside from what you say, to expand on this, I think that generally people do naturally look for other people that are similar to them, even in romantic relationships. One such quality among of many, is that there's generally something familial about them. I guess I can only speak for myself, and say that it was true for me. I think with someone that is close to you in nature, and even more in morals, interests and hobbies.. You just have more to share and talk about and get excited about together and you can support and lift each each other up better because you understand we other. All of this creates a really strong bond and connection. I don't think I have ever had a close/best friend that was so different from me, because what would be talk about. We would just have conflict and awkwardness. But having said, that, I totally agree with you, that even when people have so much in common, they are not 100% alike, and there will be differences and some conflict, for sure.

I think with my friend we did have a lot in common, and I believe they did like me as best as I can sense.. I don't even think that they wanted me to be like them.. .but the one factor that made me finally leave was because they withheld from me, and this was since the time I met them.. about 95% of the time. They withheld from me in not answering my questions, and ignoring them and instead just continuing to talk the next time about something shallow again. It was the shallowness, too, that contributed. I hadn't asked a question to my friend in months and months, but just recently they made a comment that they used to do commercials a few years ago. I was thought that was really cool and couldn't help but ask them how they got into commercials, and why did they stop. They didn't answer me. This is what I mean by them withholding from me. So there really was never conversation going on between them and me, and the chronic rejection each time was v e r y painful. I felt like a fool.

Thank you for sharing, I really appreciate it !

 

[beammeup]

I do find its kinda rude though when you are interested in somebody and you ask them questions (politely) but they dont really want to answer them or totally ignore you as if they haven't heard.

I think as believers we can be just ready to answer any questions on the hope we have because well Jesus is the answer to most anything really!

I feel that I cant go deep with anyone who is not a believer in my conversations with them as they wont have any idea what Im talking about, or I have to explain something to their level of comprehension. some things as a believer you just KNOW without having to say much at all and your fellow believer will just get it straight away. But those who dont have the spirit just wouldnt understand as the natural man knows nothing about the spiritual man I guess.

Hi again Thank you.. I appreciate your confirmation that you believe they were rude, too. I mean, if they didn't want to answer the question, they could have just said they were not up to it, or maybe even, don't ask me this question, again. That would have been wonderful, at least they would have answered me, and not ignored me.

YES, this is TRUE.. it is impossible to go deep with an unbeliever because they don't have spiritual eyes to see; they have a veil. Which makes it impossible to have a best or close friend as an unbeliever. I tried a couple times but each time it failed, they were always offended when I expressed my faith, even though I did not impose it upon them. It is who I am.

My friend was a believer but believes in a heretical doctrine. But otherwise we believed in the gospel saved by grace through faith alone. Our conflict was over the End times because they did not believe the prophesies in the Bible are for us. .

Thank you again!

 

[beammeup]

Howdy beammeup and welcome to the forum. (Unfortunately there's no intelligent life here either.)

You may have been trying to get a cup of ant milk. In other words, you may have been trying to get something out of the online conversation that was not there to get. Some people are not effusively profuse in any kind of communication. You may have been looking for a deep, meaningful connection that was just not there to find.

Your singing quote is funny

 

[beammeup]

In that situation I would do exactly what you did, talk it out, and be upfront with what my expectations are going forward. I would want to rule out that it was a fluke and their behavior is just a symptom of something they're going through while giving them a chance to explain themselves.

If we came to an understanding that we have similar goals in the friendship then I would start looking for them to be forthcoming with more conversation.

If they teased me with privileged information then withheld it when I showed interest I would probably think they wanted to manipulate me. I would probably try to dig it out of them, but if they refused I think the dynamic of the friendship would change like how yours did.

There should be trust, respect, and sharing in a friendship and it sounds like you gave him chances to get involved and he decided not to.

I think you made the right choice.

I went through something similar to this lately. I made the same decision as you. I don't feel bad. It was better to just part ways.

I am CURIOUS about this sentence you wrote, if you are comfortable sharing: " If they teased me with privileged information then withheld it when I showed interest I would probably think they wanted to manipulate me. I would probably try to dig it out of them, but if they refused I think the dynamic of the friendship would change like how yours did "

How would you try to dig it out of them?

 

[beammeup]

If I were to hear anyone say "Jesus is my savior." followed by (in essence) "But, nothing He said was important enough for me to pay any attention to." - I would think something was surely wrong somewhere...

Yes, you said exactly what I believe, too.. In fact Jesus existed from the very beginning, so how can we get a full picture of Him, if we leave out the OT and almost the entire Bible.. I do pray for my friend everyday in hopes they will be convicted, and I pray for their salvation because several sources I have read have said that with them twisting the doctrine so much that it risks a persons salvation. I don't even entertain to judge their salvation, it's not mine to know, only God knows.. But I pray for it, just in case. Thank you!

 

[beammeup]

You are welcome Not knowing anything really about the other person it is impossible to say, but it did very much sound like they were not as interested overall as you were. And almost like they were mining you for something...

I think that is a brilliant assessment.. that they were not as interested in me, as I was in them. Short and sweet and to the point, you are!

I was very open with them in the very beginning of the friendship, even though I closed down a whole lot since the last 6 months. I think I can safely say that my friend really KNEW me. I cannot say the same for them at all. Is this what you meant by mining? I'm not sure what that means.. Thanks!

 

[beammeup]

Sword-wielding, yes. Maniac? Um, no, just a lover of God's Word and very passionate about it

Yes, that is what I say, too!

 

[Runningman]

I am CURIOUS about this sentence you wrote, if you are comfortable sharing: " If they teased me with privileged information then withheld it when I showed interest I would probably think they wanted to manipulate me. I would probably try to dig it out of them, but if they refused I think the dynamic of the friendship would change like how yours did "

How would you try to dig it out of them?

I just meant that I would press them further to tell me.

See, when people say they want to tell someone something and then they say nevermind they know what that does. It drives the other person wild with curiosity.

Manipulators use that tactic because it isn't easily falsifiable and they maintain plausible deniability. They get to rile your interest up, then pull away, if you get frustrated they'll undoubtedly call you unstable and claim they are innocent of any ulterior motives.

It's the classic bait and switch.

 

[Magenta]

I think that is a brilliant assessment.. that they were not as interested in me, as I was in them. Short and sweet and to the point, you are!

I was very open with them in the very beginning of the friendship, even though I closed down a whole lot since the last 6 months. I think I can safely say that my friend really KNEW me. I cannot say the same for them at all. Is this what you meant by mining? I'm not sure what that means.. Thanks!

Mining you for something... waiting to see what they could get out of you.
Almost like a scam artist, though it does not on the surface really look like
they had any type of scam going, it does look like they were kind of stringing
you along for some reason. Best not to know what that reason was

 

[beammeup]

I just meant that I would press them further to tell me.

See, when people say they want to tell someone something and then they say nevermind they know what that does. It drives the other person wild with curiosity.

Manipulators use that tactic because it isn't easily falsifiable and they maintain plausible deniability. They get to rile your interest up, then pull away, if you get frustrated they'll undoubtedly call you unstable and claim they are innocent of any ulterior motives.

It's the classic bait and switch.

I see.. Well, then no wonder I am so frustrated, because I am generally a very curious person to begin with! lol In this way I am extroverted, but I never demand or pry.

I have tried only on a few occasions to repeat the question the 2nd time. They will answer, but there were a few times I asked the 3rd time! and they did reply - but only with a basic one sentence response. This process exhausted me. if this is the length i have to go, I won't ask to begin with. I just don't want to become a bother to them.

Your description on manipulation (bait and switch) is exactly how I feel they treat me. What is their motive, I wonder? I don't get it.. I have tried to get them to talk to me, so that I can understand their side, but they never did.

I think that all of us has manipulated someone at times, as we are all sinners.. but this was a chronic everyday thing with my friend. It's like ingrained in their personality, or at least, this is how they show themselves to me.

Thanks

 

[Runningman]

I see.. Well, then no wonder I am so frustrated, because I am generally a very curious person to begin with! lol In this way I am extroverted, but I never demand or pry.

I have tried only on a few occasions to repeat the question the 2nd time. They will answer, but there were a few times I asked the 3rd time! and they did reply - but only with a basic one sentence response. This process exhausted me. if this is the length i have to go, I won't ask to begin with. I just don't want to become a bother to them.

Your description on manipulation (bait and switch) is exactly how I feel they treat me. What is their motive, I wonder? I don't get it.. I have tried to get them to talk to me, so that I can understand their side, but they never did.

I think that all of us has manipulated someone at times, as we are all sinners.. but this was a chronic everyday thing with my friend. It's like ingrained in their personality, or at least, this is how they show themselves to me.

Thanks

What is their motive? It's control I think and it's meant to keep people disoriented enough to keep them in a lifecycle of punishments and rewards.

The possible outcome of this was he offered you information, then said no once you wanted it, had you been upset or pryed for my information, he could have called you rude, then you would have had to apologize, then he could with hold forgiveness from you, pretending to be upset, then eventually once you ask long enough you're cleared of any wrongdoing, and finally rewarded. People keep this sort of abusive relationship going for years sometimes.

It's about control. I've seen it a million times. The red flags are subtle. Be wise.

 

[beammeup]

Mining you for something... waiting to see what they could get out of you.
Almost like a scam artist, though it does not on the surface really look like
they had any type of scam going, it does look like they were kind of stringing
you along for some reason. Best not to know what that reason was

I see.. it sounds somewhat similar to what someone else said here when they called it 'bait and switch'. I think because it's chronic
they probably have some kind of troubled personality disorder.. I do pray for them everyday, but I can't be their friend any longer..
Thanks

 

[beammeup]

What is their motive? It's control I think and it's meant to keep people disoriented enough to keep them in a lifecycle of punishments and rewards.

The possible outcome of this was he offered you information, then said no once you wanted it, had you been upset or pryed for my information, he could have called you rude, then you would have had to apologize, then he could with hold forgiveness from you, pretending to be upset, then eventually once you ask long enough you're cleared of any wrongdoing, and finally rewarded. People keep this sort of abusive relationship going for years sometimes.

It's about control. I've seen it a million times. The red flags are subtle. Be wise.

WOW. OK... because you just hit it on the head. That's how I feel like - they are punishing me. It's a reward/ punishment system they use on me, that is why it hurts so much, because it's abusive... I actually sense the anger behind it. But like you say it's subtle; it's disorienting just like you say... They must be a sick personality. . Is this a narcissist??

 

[Runningman]

WOW. OK... because you just hit it on the head. That's how I feel like - they are punishing me. It's a reward/ punishment system they use on me, that is why it hurts so much, because it's abusive... I actually sense the anger behind it. But like you say it's subtle; it's disorienting just like you say... They must be a sick personality. . Is this a narcissist??

I don't know what they are, but there is probably a label for it. Maybe they aren't good at expressing themselves, but deep down afraid they can lose you, so they keep this sort of dysfunctional abusive behavior going while it lasts.

They don't realize good relationship with positive behavior is within their reach but they're too afraid of being rejected?

Was it always your fault and he was always the victim?