How to be Born Again

[FreeGrace2]

brightfame52 said:
I say that about you. Man naturally cannot come/believe in Christ Jn 6:44,65

They can come. Jesus draws ALL men after the cross . So being ' drawn ' and believing are not the same. Unless your a universalist ?

Because of 1 Pter 3:18, the calvinist position directly leads to universalism. Since Christ died "for the unrighteous", it should be obvious to any reasonable rational person that He didn't need to die for the rest of humanty.

"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit."

Only those Christ died for are called "the unrighteous". That would be "the elect" according to calvinism.

And since calvinism claims that Christ died only for the "elect", that means the rest of humanity didn't need salvation.

So, in essence, everyone goe to heaven. It's just that the "elect" needed their sins paid for so they could go.

 

[FreeGrace2]

throughfaith said:
Back to John 6 . Go back a few verses to 39 ( let's try focus on the chapter in question, this is usually tricky for some Christians to do ) 39
“That every one which SEETH the Son...raise HIM up at the last day”

I believe this verse means what it says, do you ?

I dont need to.

Well, of course you don't need to. Those who aren't interested in truth think that way.

But those who ARE interested in truth DO need to believe that verses mean what they say.

Thanks for this bit of honesty.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Man naturally cant come to Christ, hes spiritually dead, hasnt the spiritual ability Jn 6:44,65

Not a word about "spiritual ability" in either verse. But again, you don't "need to" have verses that mean what they say.

 

[brightfame52]

I said please twice there .

Lol, dont beg

 

[brightfame52]

John 12.32 completely refutes calvin .

You ust dont want to accept the truth. Man cant come to Christ Jn 6:44,65 save by Supernatural intervention.

 

[brightfame52]

You NEVER explained what you think "refused" means, so quit making that claim.

If you did, at least note which post # your explanation is in.

But I don't expect that you will, because you NEVER did in the first place.

I find it interesting that those who don't provide verses that actually say what they claim also don't comply with requests for a re-statement of things they say.

Such as your post here. You claim you gave an explanation, but you have no proof that you did.

This is a GREAT opportunity to prove your claim by either:
1. just give it again. Not too difficult.
2. cite the post # where you claim you did.

Either one of these isn't a difficult task.

The really difficult task is to cite a post # when there is none that has an explanation of what "refused" means.

And that's the problem that you face.

I've been down this road with many calvinists many times. And none of them ever come up with actual evidence for their claims.

Maybe you'll be different and DO have some evidence.

When someone claims that I haven't provided an answer to a question, I am always HAPPY to repeat myself.

I am interesting in proving my position and teaching others. So I never cop-out by saying "I've already done that and I'm not going to do it again". Nothing but a big old cop-out.

You never did. So do it at least once. Or prove that you already did by citing the post #.

Failing that, you will be proved a dishonest person. And not to ever be believed.

Yes I have explained it and you promptly ignored it, so dont expect me to do a lot of explaining for you

 

[brightfame52]

There you go again; ignoring John 6:45. The Bible says that "God has taught everyone". Not "some" or "many" or a "few".

And I've given the PROOF that faith precedes regeneration from Eph 2;5 and 8.

Were you not able to read and/or understand?

One is Born again to be taught. The natural man doesnt receive the things of God. 1 Cor 2:14

 

[brightfame52]

throughfaith said:
Back to John 6 . Go back a few verses to 39 ( let's try focus on the chapter in question, this is usually tricky for some Christians to do ) 39
“That every one which SEETH the Son...raise HIM up at the last day”

I believe this verse means what it says, do you ?

Well, of course you don't need to. Those who aren't interested in truth think that way.

But those who ARE interested in truth DO need to believe that verses mean what they say.

Thanks for this bit of honesty.

Senseless comment.

 

[brightfame52]

Not a word about "spiritual ability" in either verse. But again, you don't "need to" have verses that mean what they say.

Man cant come to Christ, Jn 6:44,65

 

[throughfaith]

Lol, dont beg

Its better than begging the question 😉

 

[throughfaith]

You ust dont want to accept the truth. Man cant come to Christ Jn 6:44,65 save by Supernatural intervention.

John 12.32 changes John 6.44 .

 

[throughfaith]

One is Born again to be taught. The natural man doesnt receive the things of God. 1 Cor 2:14

' Regeneration precedes faith ' let's play, spot the doctrine .

 

[brightfame52]

John 12.32 changes John 6.44 .

Only in your imagination. In fact Jn 12:32 ensures all for whom Crist died believes in Him. Thats the Power of the Cross.

 

[brightfame52]

' Regeneration precedes faith ' let's play, spot the doctrine .

Yes The natural man cant be taught Spiritual things 1 Cor 2:12-14

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[throughfaith]

Only in your imagination. In fact Jn 12:32 ensures all for whom Crist died believes in Him. Thats the Power of the Cross.

That's not what the verse says . Again you don't believe scripture. I'm losing count .

 

[throughfaith]

Yes The natural man cant be taught Spiritual things 1 Cor 2:12-14

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

please quote the verse where it says man cannot positively respond to Gods revelation, namely the Gospel ?

 

[throughfaith]

Yes The natural man cant be taught Spiritual things 1 Cor 2:12-14

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

As paul goes on to say in chapter 3 . Paul CANNOT speak unto them as unto spiritual. These believers are UNABLE to receive the things , the deeper wisdom he can share with 1 cor 2v6 . If Anyone behaving carnally and focused on man's wisdom will not understand.

 

[throughfaith]

Only in your imagination. In fact Jn 12:32 ensures all for whom Crist died believes in Him. Thats the Power of the Cross.

Everything has to revolve around Augustines T .. the U.LI.P is just a consequence of the T . All verses are searched out ,the formula was made and its all based on that T . Thats the blindness .

 

[FreeGrace2]

You ust dont want to accept the truth. Man cant come to Christ Jn 6:44,65 save by Supernatural intervention.

Yet neither verse says anything close to your claims.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes I have explained it and you promptly ignored it, so dont expect me to do a lot of explaining for you

Prove this by citing th post #'s where you supposedly explained what you think "refused" means, and the post where I supposedly ignored that post.

You keep failing to prove anything you claim.

Your claims are empty. There is no point in discussion with such people.