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If the papacy is the first beast, why don't we consider the spanish inquisition to be the second?
- Thread starter pittsburghjoe
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Daniel 7 - first beast a lion, second beast, a bear, third beast a leopard.
Revelation 13 - first beast is an amalgam of the lion, bear, and leopard.
I can tell you without a doubt that these two witnesses will be two literal men and do you know why? First of all because they are referred to as such and because they will be killed and resurrected, which would mean that they are human beings. For angels cannot be killed nor resurrected and that would be the only other choice. Therefore I will go on record to say that these two witnesses will be two literal men.
And speaking of prophecy, God gave it Christ to show His servants that events that must take place in quickness, therefore I and everyone else can know that these prophesies will take place just as they are written, otherwise, how could I even teach Revelation? Regarding these two men, they will prophesy in the streets of Jerusalem for 1260 days and anyone who tries to harm them will be killed by the literal fire that will proceed from their mouths, which God will have equipped them with. Are not all things possible with God? Can He not adapt there bodies so that real fire comes out of their mouths?
I already covered this in a different thread. The wording used for the two Witnesses suggests it is the same entity ..so not men.
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ue-a-sunday-law-blue-law.198366/#post-4530070
How do you know the fourth beast in Daniel 7 wasn't already an amalgamation? We aren't told specifics:
After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
In Daniel 7 The fourth beast came after the third beast (with four heads). The third beast represents the Greek empire under Alexander the Great and the Greek empire which split into the four Hellenistic empires of ancient Greece after Alexander died.
The fourth beast underwent one transition from 10 horns to 1 horn, uprooting three of the former horns. .
This single transition represents the transition from the Roman Republic to the Roman Empire.
The period of Roman domination came after the period of Greek domination. Roman domination began around 146 BC at the Battle of Corinth. The period of Roman domination began with the Roman Republic which began to transition to an empire around 63 BC. The transition to Roman Empire was completed in 27 BC with emperor Augustus Caesar.
The papacy is not the first beast, but the Pope will be the leader of a unified religious system, and the Vatican the headquarters when the nations come together for a global government.
That is because the Vatican will go by the new age movement interpretation of the Bible as they go along with what the world is doing because the occult and paganism is their foundation so they can sway in their beliefs.
The RCC is wrong but they were probably infiltrated by people of the new age movement to change her from within and get in the Cardinal positions to choose the Pope that would go along with the new age movement, so they are slowly changing to go in that direction.
The first beast will work in the world for three and one half years as a great man of peace and push the agenda of the new age movement to condition the world to accept him when he claims to be God.
The Pope will be the second beast, false prophet, and the first beast will claim to have evolved and became greater and spiritual, and the second beast will do miracles in the sight of people to convince them that the first beast did evolve and shared this power with the second beast, and will share this power with all people that follow him.
The beast kingdom is in the future for the beast has power over all nations, kindreds, and tongues, which is something that could of not happened in the past.
Which the world will be split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section which they shall devour the whole earth, tread it down, and break it in pieces, and the 10 leaders hand their power over to the beast and that is how he gets control of the world.
The two witnesses are two olive trees and two lampstands (Rev 11:4).
Have you ever considered that the two witnesses described in Rev 11 might be the Old Testament and New Testament?
Each is an olive branch, each is a lampstand. And each gives testimony. And yes the nations tried to destroy them, but ultimately the Word exploded back to life in the Reformation.
This has already happened. Constantine and the Emperors which followed all became "Chistian", they became greater and spiritual.
Examples: Saint Constantine the Great, Saint Justinian the Great.
And in the Middle Ages Roman Catholic Church performed many, many, miracles in the sight of the people, and convinced many people that the first beast (Roman Empire, Eastern Roman Empire, Holy Roman Empire...) did change from being pagan to being "Christian".
The pope and the emperor shared power throughout the middle ages. And all of Europe followed them. Yet there were always believers who did not follow them, they hid and fled and were persecuted and were killed.
Learn your history.
Charlemagne reached the height of his power in 800 when he was crowned "Emperor of the Romans" by Pope Leo III on Christmas Day at Old St. Peter's Basilica in Rome.
(the 2nd beast giving authority to the 1st beast)
Charlemagne was revered as a saint in the Holy Roman Empire and some other locations after the twelfth century. The Apostolic See did not recognise his invalid canonisation by Antipope Paschal III, done to gain the favour of Frederick Barbarossa in 1165. The Apostolic See annulled all of Paschal's ordinances at the Third Lateran Council in 1179.[147] He is not enumerated among the 28 saints named "Charles" in the Roman Martyrology.[148] His beatification has been acknowledged as cultus confirmed and is celebrated on 28 January.
Well, the two olive trees and two lampstands are obviously symbolically representing the two men described in Revelation 11. I doubt very much that two olive trees or two lampstands can be killed and resurrected. They didn't try to destroy them, because this not a past event, but is yet future. This takes place when the beast comes up out of the Abyss and during the first 3 1/2 years of that seven period.
Read the scriptures at face value and apply symbolism only when it is obvious. And stop applying a historical view to these events, because they have not yet taken place. By applying this event to the reformation, you have distorted the literal meaning of God's word.
Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
The 2 witnesses are 2 men that turn Israel as a nation to the truth that Jesus is their Lord and Savior because God is going to restore the kingdom to Israel.
Eze 39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Eze 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
Eze 39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Eze 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
God will bring the whole house of Israel back to their land and leave none of the Jews in the nations anymore, and they shall know the LORD their God from that day and forward, and He will never hide His face from them again which they will be in the truth and never stray again.
This is a future prophesy for Israel as a nation is not in the truth.
When the nations come together with a global government the Gentile nations will make all Jews go back to their land and then three and one half years later God will send 2 witnesses to them to turn them to the truth.
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Israel is blinded in part until salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles so all Israel shall be saved which the kingdom on earth will be restored to Israel.
That is the purpose of the 2 witnesses to turn Israel to the truth.
Zec 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
Zec 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
Zec 4:13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
Zec 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
They are 2 literal men.
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
It is obvious that they are 2 men from these scriptures for they die and rise again, and ascended up to heaven.
OK, so this is a good point. The beast comes out of the Abyss and then the two witnesses are killed. and so I think this could very well be a future event. And what you interpret might very well be the best interpretation.
Well, thank you for your honesty and understanding.
Another interesting point that demonstrates that the time of prophecy for the two witnesses and their deaths and resurrection as being future and not in the past, can also be found right in the scripture:
"Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. 9For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth."
The only way that the inhabitants from every people, tribe, language and nation could gaze upon their bodies lying dead in the streets of Jerusalem, would be via television and/or webcams. For example, I have a webcam link that is pointed directly at the 'Wailing Wall' in Jerusalem which is on 24/7. I believe that it will be through these media's that the world will be able to view them. Then in the same way, the whole world will also see them resurrect and ascend up into heaven. What a different world it will be, that people all over the world will be gloating over the killing of these two witnesses, sending each other gifts and leaving their bodies in the streets and refusing them burial.
EarthCam - Western Wall Cam