God's sovereignty over life and death

[Guojing]

Proverbs tells us that God controls "chance"

Proverbs 16:33
The lot is cast into the lap: but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD

As I said, there are many scriptures that talk about "chance"

Deu 22:6

If a bird's nest chance to be before thee in the way in any tree, or on the ground, whether they be young ones, or eggs, and the dam sitting upon the young, or upon the eggs, thou shalt not take the dam with the young:

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1Sa 6:9

And see, if it goeth up by the way of his own coast to Bethshemesh, then he hath done us this great evil: but if not, then we shall know that it is not his hand that smote us: it was a chance that happened to us.

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2Sa 1:6

And the young man that told him said, As I happened by chance upon mount Gilboa, behold, Saul leaned upon his spear; and, lo, the chariots and horsemen followed hard after him.

Ecc 9:11

I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.



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Luk 10:31

And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.



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1Co 15:37

And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

 

[JaumeJ]

PS.. Many, perhaps most, people who go around waving a Bible about, have never read it. Curious?

Proverbs tells us that God controls "chance"

Proverbs 16:33
The lot is cast into the lap: but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD

People need to understand this wisdom of Solomon, gift of God, especially as regarding the choice of the Twelfth Apostles replacement, which fulfilled the prophecy.

To even hint that this wisdom is not complete in itself is a very sad manner of understanding.

 

[John146]

I feel very strongly that God holds life and death in his hands regardless if we die in an accident, by someone elses hand on purpose, or by our own hand. That ultimately God know the hour of our death and he ultimately holds it his hands. Do you agree? Can you point to the scriptures to back it up? How can we answer those that our sure their lives are in their own hands through health, fitness and obedience to doctors? I mainly want any scriptures for God's sovreignty over life and death. thanks

Why pray? Why pray for sick loved ones? Why pray for the safety of others? If prayer cannot change a circumstance, then why pray? The apostle Paul knew the power of prayer. Paul had confidence that he was going to be physically saved because others were praying for him.

Philippians 1:
19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
20 According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.

 

[John146]

I feel very strongly that God holds life and death in his hands regardless if we die in an accident, by someone elses hand on purpose, or by our own hand. That ultimately God know the hour of our death and he ultimately holds it his hands. Do you agree? Can you point to the scriptures to back it up? How can we answer those that our sure their lives are in their own hands through health, fitness and obedience to doctors? I mainly want any scriptures for God's sovreignty over life and death. thanks

Define what you mean by sovereign since it’s not a biblical term. Hopefully, you don’t mean Calvins fatalism...

 

[posthuman]

1Sa 6:9

And see, if it goeth up by the way of his own coast to Bethshemesh, then he hath done us this great evil: but if not, then we shall know that it is not his hand that smote us: it was a chance that happened to us.

Then the cows headed straight for the road to Beth Shemesh, and went along the highway, lowing as they went, and did not turn aside to the right hand or the left.
(1 Samuel 6:12)
​

the context here is the Philistines who captured the ark of the testimony and were smitten with pestilence everywhere they took it.
their wise men said put it on a cart hitched to cattle and see what happens; if it is the LORD who is doing these things, the cows will take the ark back to Israel, but if there is no God ((i.e. there's only 'chance')) the cart will randomly go somewhere else.

and the cart went straight to Israel.
this proves there is no 'chance' -- it is the LORD who does these things -- just as Solomon informed us also.

 

[posthuman]

Define what you mean by sovereign since it’s not a biblical term. Hopefully, you don’t mean Calvins fatalism...

technically no English word is a "Biblical term" because the Bible isn't a book written in English.

 

[Guojing]

Then the cows headed straight for the road to Beth Shemesh, and went along the highway, lowing as they went, and did not turn aside to the right hand or the left. ​

(1 Samuel 6:12) ​

​

the context here is the Philistines who captured the ark of the testimony and were smitten with pestilence everywhere they took it.
their wise men said put it on a cart hitched to cattle and see what happens; if it is the LORD who is doing these things, the cows will take the ark back to Israel, but if there is no God ((i.e. there's only 'chance')) the cart will randomly go somewhere else.

and the cart went straight to Israel.
this proves there is no 'chance' -- it is the LORD who does these things -- just as Solomon informed us also.

Of course, its much easier to just believe that God controls everything. I suspect its a kind of ex-post way for us to comfort ourselves.

A person can make a choice for example, to punch you in the face. If he did make that choice, it will be more comforting for one to say "God allowed that to happen".

For me, I would rather say, "God did not want it to happen, but it still happened because that person made that choice out of his free will".

 

[Angela53510]

I believe in the total sovereignty of God. But was the OP trying to talk about the COVID vaccine and wearing masks, etc? Or did he want a theological discussion on the sovereignty of God?

At any rate, the Bible is clear we need to obey the authorities.

"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except by God’s appointment, and the authorities that exist have been instituted by God. 2 So the person who resists such authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will incur judgment 3 (for rulers cause no fear for good conduct but for bad). Do you desire not to fear authority? Do good and you will receive its commendation 4 because it is God’s servant for your well-being. But be afraid if you do wrong because government does not bear the sword for nothing. It is God’s servant to administer punishment on the person who does wrong. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath of the authorities but also because of your conscience. 6 For this reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants devoted to governing. 7 Pay everyone what is owed: taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due." Romans 13:1-7

So I wear a mask, I don't go out much. I don't visit people and I stay in my own region, as per the instructions of our premier and health authority.

The blessing has been, that for the first time in 35 years, since 2019, I have not had a cold that turned into pneumonia. My CY scan last month showed the bottom of my lungs had finally dried out, and my lungs were no longer blocked in the bottom.

So for me, God rewarded me for my obedience. Probably most of you won't experience something like this. But God knows whether you are living in defiance of the health edicts or not.

I realize that most masks probably don't do much. I see so many that are open and loose. The person is breathing in unfiltered air. They also might be sharing COVID through those open areas. I have a Respro mask. It has a replaceable thick carbon filter, which I change frequently. It has a neoprene mask that holds it tightly in place, as well as a metal clip over the nose to keep it from slipping down. It is a mask used by bike couriers, when they are riding in traffic with high pollution. And it works!

God has definitely planned our lives, including when we die. But not obeying the safety and health regulations is testing God. Jesus told Satan that, when the devil tempted him to jump off the temple roof, saying the angels would catch him.

So, I'm not giving into temptation. The Lord says obey, I will obey.

 

[posthuman]

2Sa 1:6

And the young man that told him said, As I happened by chance upon mount Gilboa, behold, Saul leaned upon his spear; and, lo, the chariots and horsemen followed hard after him.

this man was lying.
he said he killed Saul, but Saul killed himself.

 

[posthuman]

Luk 10:31

And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

this is the parable of the good Samaritan.

do we really think Jesus is telling us a parable in which God is absent?
does Christ, the LORD God manifest in the flesh, the Author of all scripture, remember that Proverbs 16:33 is in His own Bible when He says this? has Jesus ever heard of Psalm 37:23? does He remember it? duh.

so when God says 'by chance' is God an agnostic? or does God expect us to have wisdom?

we've all read the Bible. is it simple or is it incredibly deep, complex & interconnected? does it appear to be completely disjointed & written to 4-year-olds or does it strike us that practically any passage can be studied intensely for a lifetime and still not fully plumbed?

 

[tribesman]

Then the cows headed straight for the road to Beth Shemesh, and went along the highway, lowing as they went, and did not turn aside to the right hand or the left. ​

(1 Samuel 6:12) ​

​

the context here is the Philistines who captured the ark of the testimony and were smitten with pestilence everywhere they took it.
their wise men said put it on a cart hitched to cattle and see what happens; if it is the LORD who is doing these things, the cows will take the ark back to Israel, but if there is no God ((i.e. there's only 'chance')) the cart will randomly go somewhere else.

and the cart went straight to Israel.
this proves there is no 'chance' -- it is the LORD who does these things -- just as Solomon informed us also.

Yes. Context. Isn't that something? It's really something to consider when there are selected verses thrown at ya.

 

[posthuman]

Ecc 9:11

I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

​

The horse is prepared for the day of battle, ​

But deliverance is of the LORD.​

(Proverbs 21:31)​

​

probably a coincidence huh.

This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel:
‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’
Says the LORD of hosts.
(Zechariah 4:6)

So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs,
but of God who shows mercy.
(Romans 9:16)
​

wow the Bible has a lot of coincidences

 

[tribesman]

Luk 10:31: Perspective is God's or man's?

 

[Live4Him]

Isaiah chapter 38

[1] In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live.
[2] Then Hezekiah turned his face toward the wall, and prayed unto the LORD,
[3] And said, Remember now, O LORD, I beseech thee, how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore.
[4] Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying,
[5] Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the LORD, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years.

 

[John146]

technically no English word is a "Biblical term" because the Bible isn't a book written in English.

You can have that opinion...I share another...

 

[John146]

​

The horse is prepared for the day of battle, ​

But deliverance is of the LORD.​

(Proverbs 21:31)​

​

probably a coincidence huh.

This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: ​

‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’ ​

Says the LORD of hosts. ​

(Zechariah 4:6)​

​

So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, ​

but of God who shows mercy. ​

(Romans 9:16)​

​

wow the Bible has a lot of coincidences

Coincidence? Maybe not, but God has all authority to change His mind especially when His people call out to Him in prayer.

 

[posthuman]

You can have that opinion...I share another...

I think most of us know that what you really meant was "sovereign is not a kjv word" and i think you know what the word sovereign means and that the meaning of it is certainly a characteristic the scripture attributes to the King of Kings and Lord of all heaven and earth, Who works all things according to His purpose and Whom no one can stand against or say to Him, 'what is this you have done?'

It is not a matter of opinion whether the Bible is an English language document. It's a fact that it is not. It's a Hebrew & Greek document (with a small portion of Daniel in Aramaic) that has been translated into almost every other language on earth.

 

[Evmur]

to tribesman, I just saw this phrase..."You're unto something here. Expect the free-will crowd to have objections." Can you expound on this more at your convenience? Lately I've been pondering if there is a difference between free will and free choice, but that could be a different topic off your point. Our wills ultimately should be surrendered to God but we still have it innately don't we? Free choice is choice of what is available or offered in accordance to our circumstance, our geography, our birth and cultural. We have to have free will to freely choose God but I sense you mean something more by this in line with my original question

We have a will but it is not free until Jesus sets it free when we are saved. In being saved we surrender our will to His as you say.

when we backslide we slip back to doing our own will which is in bondage and will lead us into ever greater bondage.

 

[John146]

I think most of us know that what you really meant was "sovereign is not a kjv word" and i think you know what the word sovereign means and that the meaning of it is certainly a characteristic the scripture attributes to the King of Kings and Lord of all heaven and earth, Who works all things according to His purpose and Whom no one can stand against or say to Him, 'what is this you have done?'

It is not a matter of opinion whether the Bible is an English language document. It's a fact that it is not. It's a Hebrew & Greek document (with a small portion of Daniel in Aramaic) that has been translated into almost every other language on earth.

God has other attributes other than "sovereignty". God is gracious and merciful and acts according to His grace and mercy even if it means changing the course of natural things. What is man accountable for if all things are going the way God has ordained them to be?

 

[John146]

We have a will but it is not free until Jesus sets it free when we are saved. In being saved we surrender our will to His as you say.

when we backslide we slip back to doing our own will which is in bondage and will lead us into ever greater bondage.

No such thing as backsliding if all things have been determined by God...