Cessationism vs. continuationism...does it make any difference?

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CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Because Pentecostalism is made up of many difficult types of churches in different countries, which branch of Pentecostalism are you talking about?
He doesn't know the term pentecostal means one who identifies with the experience found in Acts chapter 2. That is all.
 
Mar 17, 2021
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yes I believe there is false Christianity in the world and is spread through the world and worst it’s the work of the devil because people won’t believe the truth he sent them a lie just like in Eden

you have the truth forever of salvation sent out into the world until the end

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭



“Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭2:9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we should know a miracle doesn’t mean someone is of God , it’s part of Satans deception in the world also those miracle powers

“Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:11-12‬ ‭

“And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast;

saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:11-14‬ ‭


I think that faith is our only way now miracle working doesn’t prove anything , the word of God being accepted proves everything . Faith comes from believing the gospel and I don’t think miracles prove anything now they could be of Satan .


I believe we have to accept and believe the gospel that the Bible presents us and in that there is no place left to be deceived his words are forever and what changed the church is when we part from his gospel and listen to the dragons whispers
Here is my book that shows the difference between signs and wonders produced by the Holy Spirit in support of the Gospel of Christ, and the false signs and wonders you are talking about in your post.
 

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Mar 17, 2021
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He doesn't know the term pentecostal means one who identifies with the experience found in Acts chapter 2. That is all.
Yes. There is a difference between playing the religious game and following Christ.
 
Mar 17, 2021
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Scripture clearly teaches below, that the gifts of Prophecy, Knowledge, Tongues, will cease at the future (Second Coming) of Jesus Christ, and not anytime before that, its right before your eyes!

1 Corinthians 13:8-10KJV
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
I looked the verses up in my Calvin's commentary on 1 Corinthians and he says exactly that. He says that the gifts are present to compensate for our weaknesses, but they will cease when we die because we will be leaving our weaknesses behind, and the final cessation will be at the Day of Judgment when the church age is wound up.

Those playing the religious game and finding their personal identity by serving their religious party will pour criticism and hatred on those who don't walk their party line.

Those who are content just to walk with the Lord in the Spirit, know that because the Lord unconditionally loves us, they follow Him in loving others regardless of their particular stage in their spiritual journey.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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Folk who are not baptized with the Holy Ghost argue about the validity of the experience and His gifts.
This is the error that Pentecostalism promotes. EVERY CHILD OF GOD HAS BEEN BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.

The gift of the Spirit is given to each one who repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. During the apostolic period, some Christians were given the spiritual gift of tongues. But not all spoke in tongues. Today's "tongues" are not specific supernaturally spoken foreign languages. They are essentially babblings.

The Greek words glossa, dialektos and glossais should strictly be translated today as "languages" or "dialects". Some translations have done this.
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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He doesn't know the term pentecostal means one who identifies with the experience found in Acts chapter 2. That is all.
"Pentecostalism" in America, is directly associated with the Azusa Street Revival In Los Angeles 1906, And Branches That Formed From This To The World

Assembly Of God, Four Square Gospel, Etc
 

Lookupnotback

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Sep 26, 2020
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a bit childish then? smh

but I guess it might be true. you only hear what you already believe like so many others



why are you so worked up? can't you discuss without becoming so emotional and accusatory? calling names is childish...not Christian
....who is worked up? Or maybe me yes, at the blatant lies held onto by pentecostals in search for meaning through emotionalism’s lies about there being any practical use for a christian to use pagan babble and such? The real question is, if ne needs emotionalism's lies? Me questions their being saved in the 1st place and so that angers me too at satan fooling so many in their service to self and thinking disrespecting the Holy Spirit is looked kindly upon by God? Shows a total lack of understanding of what our Creator’s personality and desires for us is/are.
 

Lookupnotback

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This will help in your understanding of what it is you are tied up in...
The truth of the word always stings the deceived who want to stay as such because they fear what they see as the unknow, better to stay in a situation damming an eternal soul than look to see if what they are doing is actually what God want’s from us.
 

Lookupnotback

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Sep 26, 2020
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This is what's sad about those on the cessationist side of this topic.
McCarthur has issues with people who abuse the gifts of the Spirit, fine address it and them.

But those like him try to tie this foolish idea that pagan worship and demons and Hindu pagan chanting.

These Christians went outside the word of God to explain the error in the use of the gifts of the Holy Spirit which they deny are for today.

Instead of looking at the full context of the word of God they seek the pagan, demonic, foolishness to explain unbiblical use of the gifts of the Holy Spirit by those most Pentecostal would not allow happening in their services.

What they fail to understand in the context of the founding of Pentecostal denominations you would never have anything to do with pagan practices or demons.

in 1906 to 1914 the understanding of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today was never studied from a false narrative that was provided by those who oppose the Gifts of the Holy Spirit for today.

Rev Seymour and others read Acts chapter 2 and 1cor chapter12- 14 and asked the very simple question can we have this too?

From the historical information we have, we can see moves of the Holy Spirit from the book of Acts all the way down through the church ages and never was disputed until it became a movement.

Jesus said these "signs will follow them that believe ". Mark 16:17-18

If that is not good enough We see in the Book of Acts the empowering of the Holy Spirit not only on Jews but Gentiles the house of Cornelius. Never in the history of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit did Pentecostals ever search, study, or look to pagan practices to explain what is well seen in the Word of God.

it is only those who call themselves Christians that will not address the Biblical accounts or explain fully why it is not for you and me today.

I have asked repeatedly please explain wherein the context of 1cor 13:8-10 does it say that " the gifts have ceased?".

They have not you can see it here. Only attacks and insults. Yet I have stood by the very word of God, church history, and the work of God which is praiseworthy.

they dismiss their ignorance with attacks and out of Context use of the word of God.

Which is ok we are well adapted to your lies and attacks. Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior, I have seen HIm heal set free, and deliver and HE does it today. I have been empowered by the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues as the Holy Spirit gives me the Ability.

I can't have a demon and the Holy Spirit too. Light has no fellowship with darkness. And the God I serve is the same yesterday today and forever.

Just because you have had a bad experience, error od those using the gifts of the Holy Spirit or you have never had the experience yourself, does not in any way mean it is not for today.

Moreover, Nor you not having the experience means you are not saved or I am a better Christian than you.

I do not consider your not faith to be any less than mine however, you can't say the same ABOUT ME.

That is because you have hate for those you disagree with.
Ok, blah, blah, but Paul is admonishing you in using pagan nonsensical gibberish via the use of singular vs plural and you are just skipping over that for starts? We can did into all your points here but let’s stay with the 1st one of pagan babble and it’s not being a known language of mankind. Then, the tongues were for a judgement against the jews and that the scriptures were now not being taught in hebrew but now our languages.....i love what Joni has to say on your false religion’s desires to find meaning in healings....
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...=&form=VDSHOT&shth=OSH.LmmoOjElLMJMeOWGm9o6yg
 

Lookupnotback

Active member
Sep 26, 2020
169
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This is what's sad about those on the cessationist side of this topic.
McCarthur has issues with people who abuse the gifts of the Spirit, fine address it and them.

But those like him try to tie this foolish idea that pagan worship and demons and Hindu pagan chanting.

These Christians went outside the word of God to explain the error in the use of the gifts of the Holy Spirit which they deny are for today.

Instead of looking at the full context of the word of God they seek the pagan, demonic, foolishness to explain unbiblical use of the gifts of the Holy Spirit by those most Pentecostal would not allow happening in their services.

What they fail to understand in the context of the founding of Pentecostal denominations you would never have anything to do with pagan practices or demons.

in 1906 to 1914 the understanding of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today was never studied from a false narrative that was provided by those who oppose the Gifts of the Holy Spirit for today.

Rev Seymour and others read Acts chapter 2 and 1cor chapter12- 14 and asked the very simple question can we have this too?

From the historical information we have, we can see moves of the Holy Spirit from the book of Acts all the way down through the church ages and never was disputed until it became a movement.

Jesus said these "signs will follow them that believe ". Mark 16:17-18

If that is not good enough We see in the Book of Acts the empowering of the Holy Spirit not only on Jews but Gentiles the house of Cornelius. Never in the history of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit did Pentecostals ever search, study, or look to pagan practices to explain what is well seen in the Word of God.

it is only those who call themselves Christians that will not address the Biblical accounts or explain fully why it is not for you and me today.

I have asked repeatedly please explain wherein the context of 1cor 13:8-10 does it say that " the gifts have ceased?".

They have not you can see it here. Only attacks and insults. Yet I have stood by the very word of God, church history, and the work of God which is praiseworthy.

they dismiss their ignorance with attacks and out of Context use of the word of God.

Which is ok we are well adapted to your lies and attacks. Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior, I have seen HIm heal set free, and deliver and HE does it today. I have been empowered by the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues as the Holy Spirit gives me the Ability.

I can't have a demon and the Holy Spirit too. Light has no fellowship with darkness. And the God I serve is the same yesterday today and forever.

Just because you have had a bad experience, error od those using the gifts of the Holy Spirit or you have never had the experience yourself, does not in any way mean it is not for today.

Moreover, Nor you not having the experience means you are not saved or I am a better Christian than you.

I do not consider your not faith to be any less than mine however, you can't say the same ABOUT ME.

That is because you have hate for those you disagree with.
...and again, i do hate the father of lies and how he has so many locked-up in emotionalism’s lies through these deceptions he loves to seduce with....just like Eve in the garden are the one’s who want to believe the lie for their own selfish desires sake and building oneself up through a system of emotional trip’n.
 

Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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This is the error that Pentecostalism promotes. EVERY CHILD OF GOD HAS BEEN BAPTIZED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.

The gift of the Spirit is given to each one who repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. During the apostolic period, some Christians were given the spiritual gift of tongues. But not all spoke in tongues. Today's "tongues" are not specific supernaturally spoken foreign languages. They are essentially babblings.

The Greek words glossa, dialektos and glossais should strictly be translated today as "languages" or "dialects". Some translations have done this.
The baptism is not the same as the new birth, everybody receives the Holy Spirit as you say but not all are baptized in Him.

Corrie ten Boom was a soul winner for decades but she relates that she experienced the baptism in 1968 just prior to her outreach to Russia.

D.L. Moody also was in the ministry many years in Chicago, pursued by two dear ladies who knew he was missing something ... they caught up with him and his ministry was transformed.

C. H.
Spurgeon mourned at the lack of experience among christians and encouraged folk to seek the rivers of living waters that should flow out of their belly.

The plain fact is that many, many christians do not experience the Holy Spirit as they should.

The first step to receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit is to desire Him.
 

Lookupnotback

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Sep 26, 2020
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You insult all Pentecostals (I'm not Pentecostal) or anyone, really, that understands and experiences differently than you do.

You are actually exhibiting the kind of hatred that MacArthur shows when he starts his ranting. I've studied on his responses and what he has to say and he is inaccurate and goes way off in left field to try and paint everyone with the same prejudiced brush.

Nice going. This should never be a personal discussion but yet it always seems to turn into such with the 'nons' becoming hostile and either mocking or exaggerating. I think you have done both
....but your faith system is not based on accepted christian doctrine but makes it’s own and new rules that can only be seen elsewhere in pagan emotional rituals. How do you possibly justify using that or any name associated with pentecostal emotional mayhem and charismatic chaos.’if you are a stable christian not blown about by these shifting winds of pentecostalism? How can you possibly have anything to do with the group that all falls under pentecostal? They are all based on lies, why would you stand by under the name used by a movement that twists God’s word?
 

Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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yes I believe there is false Christianity in the world and is spread through the world and worst it’s the work of the devil because people won’t believe the truth he sent them a lie just like in Eden

you have the truth forever of salvation sent out into the world until the end

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭



“Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭2:9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we should know a miracle doesn’t mean someone is of God , it’s part of Satans deception in the world also those miracle powers

“Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:11-12‬ ‭

“And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast;

saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:11-14‬ ‭


I think that faith is our only way now miracle working doesn’t prove anything , the word of God being accepted proves everything . Faith comes from believing the gospel and I don’t think miracles prove anything now they could be of Satan .


I believe we have to accept and believe the gospel that the Bible presents us and in that there is no place left to be deceived his words are forever and what changed the church is when we part from his gospel and listen to the dragons whispers
Yes the devil can bring fire down from heaven mebbe, but he can't open the eyes of the blind. if he could do stuff like that he would have copied Christ and the apostle

learn

a good tree produces good fruit
an evil tree produces evil fruit

Jesus said this in relation to the charge by the Pharisees that He did His miracles by beelzebub.
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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You insult all Pentecostals (I'm not Pentecostal) or anyone, really, that understands and experiences differently than you do.

You are actually exhibiting the kind of hatred that MacArthur shows when he starts his ranting. I've studied on his responses and what he has to say and he is inaccurate and goes way off in left field to try and paint everyone with the same prejudiced brush.

Nice going. This should never be a personal discussion but yet it always seems to turn into such with the 'nons' becoming hostile and either mocking or exaggerating. I think you have done both
I fully believe in the Gifts Of The Holy Spirit For Today, However The Pentecostal Movement Is Way Out In Left Field Concerning Using The Gifts

Rolling On The Floor, Crawling Around Like A Dog, Mass Hysteria In Chaos (Fact) And This Applies To A Large Portion That Are Named (Pentecostals)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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I fully believe in the Gifts Of The Holy Spirit For Today, However The Pentecostal Movement Is Way Out In Left Field Concerning Using The Gifts

Rolling On The Floor, Crawling Around Like A Dog, Mass Hysteria In Chaos (Fact) And This Applies To A Large Portion That Are Named (Pentecostals)
You may believe in the gifts, but you perpetuate falsehoods. How about you present some actual evidence supporting your slander. One or two examples won't cut it.
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
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I became a Christian through a Pentecostal church. And by chance a group I joined was a Pentecostal group. So my earliest Christian years were formed by these beliefs. And at the time I didn't really understand denominations.
I think back and can recall various times I had first experiences related to Pentecostalism and how often my first instinct was to have a negative response. Discomfort. Even fear at times.

I also remember a lot of guilt in this denomination. It seems to be a central theme.

Another issue is, as another user referred to, chasing the emotional high of the "Holy Spirit". These sorts of things lead me to be angry, insecure and always wondering what was wrong with my and why I wasn't good enough in God's eyes if I didn't experience it.
At times I even felt pressured to pretend to be experiencing things when in reality I felt nothing at all.
When I finally understood and made the choice to walk away from these beliefs I felt a huge weight lift off my shoulders. Guilt began to subside. God didn't feel distant. I no longer felt a need to chase an emotional response to "feel saved".

And due to my own experiences, whether "real" or not, it began having a negative effect on my dad's spiritual walk. He, too, began chasing after the "slain in the spirit" feeling, having never felt it before. He began even seeming to be jealous of what was going on in my life, spiritually. And as he again and again lacked these spiritual events in his life, he felt doubt, shame, guilt, etc... same as I did.

I also recall all the false prophets and fake healers being brought in to speak to the church.
And I have since had conversations with others that left this denomination and charismatic beliefs as a whole, whose stories sound nearly identical.

So give all the thumbs down and red x's you want. I became thoroughly convinced that charismatic movements are mentally, spiritually and emotionally damaging. And I've never read a single scripture to refute that. And, in fact, it was scripture that helped me come to this conclusion.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
You insult all Pentecostals (I'm not Pentecostal) or anyone, really, that understands and experiences differently than you do.

You are actually exhibiting the kind of hatred that MacArthur shows when he starts his ranting. I've studied on his responses and what he has to say and he is inaccurate and goes way off in left field to try and paint everyone with the same prejudiced brush.

Nice going. This should never be a personal discussion but yet it always seems to turn into such with the 'nons' becoming hostile and either mocking or exaggerating. I think you have done both
Youre jumping in late to a conversation that has been going on.
I explained to him my experiences, I used to be non-denominational/ Pentecostal and have been to more than just a few churches across several states. He said his church was different and that there are some different than my experience, I asked him to post a link to some of them or even one of them being different to which he said see Paul in acts.
So thanks for jumping in d not flowing a conversation and making assumptions.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
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London
christianchat.com
I became a Christian through a Pentecostal church. And by chance a group I joined was a Pentecostal group. So my earliest Christian years were formed by these beliefs. And at the time I didn't really understand denominations.
I think back and can recall various times I had first experiences related to Pentecostalism and how often my first instinct was to have a negative response. Discomfort. Even fear at times.

I also remember a lot of guilt in this denomination. It seems to be a central theme.

Another issue is, as another user referred to, chasing the emotional high of the "Holy Spirit". These sorts of things lead me to be angry, insecure and always wondering what was wrong with my and why I wasn't good enough in God's eyes if I didn't experience it.
At times I even felt pressured to pretend to be experiencing things when in reality I felt nothing at all.
When I finally understood and made the choice to walk away from these beliefs I felt a huge weight lift off my shoulders. Guilt began to subside. God didn't feel distant. I no longer felt a need to chase an emotional response to "feel saved".

And due to my own experiences, whether "real" or not, it began having a negative effect on my dad's spiritual walk. He, too, began chasing after the "slain in the spirit" feeling, having never felt it before. He began even seeming to be jealous of what was going on in my life, spiritually. And as he again and again lacked these spiritual events in his life, he felt doubt, shame, guilt, etc... same as I did.

I also recall all the false prophets and fake healers being brought in to speak to the church.
And I have since had conversations with others that left this denomination and charismatic beliefs as a whole, whose stories sound nearly identical.

So give all the thumbs down and red x's you want. I became thoroughly convinced that charismatic movements are mentally, spiritually and emotionally damaging. And I've never read a single scripture to refute that. And, in fact, it was scripture that helped me come to this conclusion.
You became a christian through the Pentecostal movement, you and half of America, they are one of the few churches that are saving souls. All Africa has emerged out of the dark ages through the witness of the Pentecostalists ... they are now sending missionaries to England. India is opening it's doors after all these centuries. China is being swept by the Holy Spirit.

I see the same things you do in the western Pentecostal movement, I think it is important to not desert the field but to stay and fight.

There are plenty of good balanced Pentecostal assemblies ... nobody has to chase wildfire. :)
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
Because Pentecostalism is made up of many difficult types of churches in different countries, which branch of Pentecostalism are you talking about?
I asked him to give am example of one doing different than the mainstream ken copeland type but he refused. So we'll there ya go. If he would simply post a video from his church or a similar one there would be something to go on beside what I have witnessed and experienced and seen.