50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

[lamad]

The 'beheaded' came out of 'tribulation' - which occurs [in its entirety] before the rapture.

Find then, the rapture in Rev. 19. Good luck with that: no one has been able.

In fact, find the rapture anywhere in Revelation after the 7th vial that ends the 70th week.

Did you not understand that the huge crowd too large to number in Rev. 7 is the just raptured church? Those caught up in the rapture will be BY FAR the largest group mentioned in Revelation.

 

[lamad]

the resurrection and rapture will occur

HOw can you say that (wrath happens after He comes) when John shows us the Day of His wrath comes before the trumpets, showing us that the trumpets and the vials come with His wrath. Perhaps we have to separate the Father's wrath (the vials were filled with His wrath) and the Son's wrath at Armageddon. Will the Son have wrath after He comes? Show a verse.

 

[Runningman]

One reason why Jesus will come after the tribulation ....

.... He said so.

"After the tribulation of those days ...... they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of Heaven with great power and glory and He will send forth His angels to gather His elect from the four winds of Heaven"

Simple truth. It isn't more plainly stated anywhere than Matthew 24.

 

[GaryA]

Did you not understand that the huge crowd too large to number in Rev. 7 is the just raptured church?

Have you read verses 13-14?

 

[GaryA]

Find then, the rapture in Rev. 19. Good luck with that: no one has been able.

In fact, find the rapture anywhere in Revelation after the 7th vial that ends the 70th week.

You seem to be under the false impression that Revelation is in chronological order...?

It is not.

The Trumpet events are post-trib and pre-wrath.

Only the Vials are the Wrath of God.

The 70th week of Daniel ended in 34 A.D.

 

[Truth7t7]

Simple truth. It isn't more plainly stated anywhere than Matthew 24.

The second coming, last day resurrection, immediately after the tribulation, as plain as it gets

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Truth7t7]

You seem to be under the false impression that Revelation is in chronological order...?

It is not.

The Trumpet events are post-trib and pre-wrath.

The 70th week of Daniel ended in 34 A.D.

I disagree, the 70 literal weeks of Daniel are future, and will start in Jerusalem at the command to build the wall and street

The traditional teaching of Daniel's 70 weeks being 490 years is a fabricated lie

You will closely note in verse 27 below, the bad guy will be present on earth causing (Desolation) all the way to the Consummation (The Ultimate End) this cancels 34AD fulfillment

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.

When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation has started.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[VCO]

View attachment 226895

JUST SO YOU KNOW, we Evangelicals, teach the Calling out of the BRIDE, PreTrib, 100% BIBLICICAL.

Matthew 25:1-13 (NCV)
1 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went to wait for the bridegroom.
2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
3 The five foolish bridesmaids took their lamps, but they did not take more oil for the lamps to burn.
4 The wise bridesmaids took their lamps and more oil in jars.
5 Because the bridegroom was late, they became sleepy and went to sleep.
6 “At midnight someone cried out, ’The bridegroom is coming! Come and meet him!’
7 Then all the bridesmaids woke up and got their lamps ready.
8 But the foolish ones said to the wise, ’Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
9 The wise bridesmaids answered, ’No, the oil we have might not be enough for all of us. Go to the people who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10 “So while the five foolish bridesmaids went to buy oil, the bridegroom came. The bridesmaids who were ready went in with the bridegroom to the wedding feast. Then the door was closed and locked.
11 “Later the others came back and said, ’Sir, sir, open the door to let us in.’
12 But the bridegroom answered, ’I tell you the truth, I don’t want to know you.’
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.

 

[GaryA]

HOw can you say that (wrath happens after He comes) when John shows us the Day of His wrath comes before the trumpets, showing us that the trumpets and the vials come with His wrath. Perhaps we have to separate the Father's wrath (the vials were filled with His wrath) and the Son's wrath at Armageddon. Will the Son have wrath after He comes? Show a verse.

Jesus Himself "administers" the Wrath of God upon the World.

Revelation 19:15

 

[Truth7t7]

JUST SO YOU KNOW, we Evangelicals, teach the Calling out of the BRIDE, PreTrib, 100% BIBLICICAL.

Matthew 25:1-13 (NCV)
1 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went to wait for the bridegroom.
2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
3 The five foolish bridesmaids took their lamps, but they did not take more oil for the lamps to burn.
4 The wise bridesmaids took their lamps and more oil in jars.
5 Because the bridegroom was late, they became sleepy and went to sleep.
6 “At midnight someone cried out, ’The bridegroom is coming! Come and meet him!’
7 Then all the bridesmaids woke up and got their lamps ready.
8 But the foolish ones said to the wise, ’Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
9 The wise bridesmaids answered, ’No, the oil we have might not be enough for all of us. Go to the people who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10 “So while the five foolish bridesmaids went to buy oil, the bridegroom came. The bridesmaids who were ready went in with the bridegroom to the wedding feast. Then the door was closed and locked.
11 “Later the others came back and said, ’Sir, sir, open the door to let us in.’
12 But the bridegroom answered, ’I tell you the truth, I don’t want to know you.’
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.

The day and hour that no man knows Matthew 25:13 below that you put in bold red and underline is (The Second Coming) not a Pre-Trib Rapture that you falsely suggest

Matthew 24:36KJV
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matthew 25:13KJV
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

 

[Runningman]

JUST SO YOU KNOW, we Evangelicals, teach the Calling out of the BRIDE, PreTrib, 100% BIBLICICAL.

Matthew 25:1-13 (NCV)
1 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went to wait for the bridegroom.
2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
3 The five foolish bridesmaids took their lamps, but they did not take more oil for the lamps to burn.
4 The wise bridesmaids took their lamps and more oil in jars.
5 Because the bridegroom was late, they became sleepy and went to sleep.
6 “At midnight someone cried out, ’The bridegroom is coming! Come and meet him!’
7 Then all the bridesmaids woke up and got their lamps ready.
8 But the foolish ones said to the wise, ’Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
9 The wise bridesmaids answered, ’No, the oil we have might not be enough for all of us. Go to the people who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10 “So while the five foolish bridesmaids went to buy oil, the bridegroom came. The bridesmaids who were ready went in with the bridegroom to the wedding feast. Then the door was closed and locked.
11 “Later the others came back and said, ’Sir, sir, open the door to let us in.’
12 But the bridegroom answered, ’I tell you the truth, I don’t want to know you.’
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.

Pretribulation rapture is 100% false:

The return of Christ and our gathering to Him (rapture) does not occur until after the falling away (apostasy of the church) and the man of sin (anti-Christ) is revealed. This means Jesus Christ returns after the great tribulation has started:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

At your service,
Brother Runningman

 

[VCO]

Here is a 70 weeks chart, which is Similar to the one we use, when we are Teaching Daniel:





Maybe the space between (Revelation of Christ - with HIS Saints) and (the start of the 1000 year Kingdom Age), should only be a few seconds. And he will rebuilt Jerusalem, the 4th TEMPLE that HE CREATES FOR the Mortals Left on EARTH.

 

[GaryA]

Almost everything on that chart is wrong!

 

[Truth7t7]

View attachment 227061

Here is a 70 weeks chart, which is Similar to the one we use, when we are Teaching Daniel:

View attachment 227062



Maybe the space between (Revelation of Christ - with HIS Saints) and (the start of the 1000 year Kingdom Age), should only be a few seconds. And he will rebuilt Jerusalem, the 4th TEMPLE that HE CREATES FOR the Mortals Left on EARTH.

The traditional teaching of Daniel's 70 weeks being 490 years is a fabricated lie

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.


Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal future weeks or 490 days.

When the call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the Antichrist who stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see the antichrist revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation has started.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Truth7t7]

View attachment 227061

Here is a 70 weeks chart, which is Similar to the one we use, when we are Teaching Daniel:

View attachment 227062



Maybe the space between (Revelation of Christ - with HIS Saints) and (the start of the 1000 year Kingdom Age), should only be a few seconds. And he will rebuilt Jerusalem, the 4th TEMPLE that HE CREATES FOR the Mortals Left on EARTH.

Zechariah 14 isn't a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as your chart claims, it's the (Eternal Kingdom)

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

[Absolutely]

One reason why Jesus will come after the tribulation ....

.... He said so.

"After the tribulation of those days ...... they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of Heaven with great power and glory and He will send forth His angels to gather His elect from the four winds of Heaven"

Both sides believe that


That is mat 24 COMING ON HORSES.

Mat 24 also has the rapture.
It starts out "before the flood"

So right there you have 2 appearances.

 

[GaryA]

[internet info-->] "Strong first published his Concordance in 1890"


"Strong's Concordance" is like a "bare-bones" kind of resource (not meant as an insult!), barely scratching the surface, but is still good for people getting their feet wet in Bible study... it's just not the "be all, end all," see...


[there was "only so much room" to fit what was put in that Strong's Concordance when published... it didn't fit EVERYTHING that could be (legitimately) said about any given "word-entry," see...]

Strong's Concordance deals in 'base'/'root' words only - but, is very good for word definitions. You still need a Textus Receptus Greek New Testament and a good Greek lexicon to get to the 'specifics' of the particular use of the word with all of its grammatical characteristics.

 

[Absolutely]

Pretribulation rapture is 100% false:

The return of Christ and our gathering to Him (rapture) does not occur until after the falling away (apostasy of the church) and the man of sin (anti-Christ) is revealed. This means Jesus Christ returns after the great tribulation has started:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

At your service,
Brother Runningman

You just said "revealed".

Pretrib rapture.

It says revealed...not in power.

Pretrib rapture...solid bible

Still waiting for a postrib rapture verse.
Been waiting for a long time

 

[GaryA]

[when the "perfect tense" is in the INDICATIVE, it DOES INDEED speak to "TIME," contrary to your insufficient info you had presented!

It does, but ONLY with regard to [the meaning of] the word that is in the 'perfect' tense.

You cannot apply it [directly] to other words.

I guess you still don't understand what I was trying to show/tell you.

 

[Truth7t7]

Mat 24 also has the rapture.
It starts out "before the flood"

So right there you have 2 appearances.

Hey your catching on, Matthew 24 does have the (Rapture) and it comes "Immediately After The Tribulation"

Matthew 24:29-3+KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.