PREACHING SO AS TO CONVERT NOBODY.

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Gideon300

Well-known member
#4
Mar 18, 2021
5,368
3,163
113
#4
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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#5
#5
"truth adapted"???

So the truth must be Modified? In order to "win" souls.

I should think not.
 
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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#6
#6
So the truth of the Gospel is not sufficient to save souls? We must adapt and modify the truth presumably by human cunning to "win souls".
This is an abhorrent concept.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#7
Nov 20, 2018
23,034
8,375
113
#7
Blackpowderduelist said:
So the truth of the Gospel is not sufficient to save souls? We must adapt and modify the truth presumably by human cunning to "win souls".
This is an abhorrent concept.
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Who are you conversing with? Not showing up.
 
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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#8
#8
"skillfully adapt means to convert souls to Christ, "
This statement alone is enough to make a person's skin crawl.
I have not nor will I read any further. Who ever wrote this is a deviant.
 
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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#9
#9
cv5 said:
Who are you conversing with? Not showing up.
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I'm discussing the article posted to the general group. Whom ever may read this thread and subsequently the article linked there in the op.
 
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Live4Him

Guest
#10
#10
Blackpowderduelist said:
"skillfully adapt means to convert souls to Christ, "
This statement alone is enough to make a person's skin crawl.
I have not nor will I read any further. Who ever wrote this is a deviant.
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I think that you're totally misunderstanding the purpose of what was written.

It was written as a REBUKE towards the "preachers" who do the things outlined in the article, and NOT as an encouragement to do the same.

Charles Finney was a man of God.
 
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presidente

Senior Member
#11
May 29, 2013
9,164
1,794
113
#11
cv5 said:
A devastating appraisal. Evidently was as applicable back in those days as it is here today.

https://www.gospeltruth.net/1868_75Independent/710907_preaching.htm
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Nowadays, we could add, preach a sermon that does not tell people Who Jesus is, that He is the Christ Who died for their sins and rose from the dead, tell them they need relationship, not religion, have them repeat a prayer that vaguely mentions Jesus as a 'personal Savior' or just asks Jesus for help-- but without explaining the Gospel-- then send them away, declaring them saved if they believed the prayer.

That seems to be the norm in a lot of churches.
 
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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#12
#12
Live4Him said:
I think that you're totally misunderstanding the purpose of what was written.

It was written as a REBUKE towards the "preachers" who do the things outlined in the article, and NOT as an encouragement to do the same.

Charles Finney was a man of God.
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His opening statement is clear that he is proposing that a preacher must adapt the truth by skillfully means to convert souls. his own words. Read the opening statement again.

It is generally conceded at the present day that the Holy Spirit converts souls to Christ by means of truth adapted to that end. It follows that a selfish preacher will not skillfully adapt means to convert souls to Christ, for this is not his end.
A selfish preacher does not skillfully adapt means to convert souls because it is not his intent.

This guy is a mongrel.
 
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Live4Him

Guest
#13
#13
Blackpowderduelist said:
His opening statement is clear that he is proposing that a preacher must adapt the truth by skillfully means to convert souls. his own words. Read the opening statement again.
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I'm very familiar with the writings of Charles Finney.

He was a non-compromising soul winner.

Again, this was written as a tongue-in-cheek sort of REBUKE.
 
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Live4Him

Guest
#14
#14
Blackpowderduelist said:
This guy is a mongrel.
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Charles Finney was one of the greatest preachers that this nation has ever known.

Again, you're totally misunderstanding his intent, and, admittedly, without prior knowledge of Finney, this article could easily be misunderstood.

I've read MANY of Finney's sermons in the past, and they were THE POLAR OPPOSITE of what he described in this particular article.

Finney preached a totally uncompromising gospel that cut his hearers to the heart and led to godly sorrow and true repentance.
 
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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#15
#15
Live4Him said:
I'm very familiar with the writings of Charles Finney.

He was a non-compromising soul winner.

Again, this was written as a tongue-in-cheek sort of REBUKE.
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So you read this article with bias.
I read only the opening statement, and that was enough. I don't care if the rest of the article is true or not. His opening statement is absolute rubbish, and heretical to boot.
 
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Live4Him

Guest
#16
#16
Blackpowderduelist said:
So you read this article with bias.
I read only the opening statement, and that was enough. I don't care if the rest of the article is true or not. His opening statement is absolute rubbish, and heretical to boot.
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It's not my bias.

Instead, it's your ignorance.

About 22 years ago, after I had already been a devout, God-fearing, Bible-reading, prayerful Christian for about 10 years, I read a book of sermons by Charles Finney.

After reading it, I commented to someone that I felt as if I were a rotten tree and that Finney was a sharp axe in the hand of Almighty God.

In other words, Finney's sermons were so uncompromisingly powerful that they led me to repent of several sins that had previously gone unnoticed in my own life.

This article, although it can give the wrong impression without prior knowledge of Finney, was definitely meant as a REBUKE for those who employ the types of methods outlined in the article. As Finney said, those types of things CONVERT NOBODY, and Finney was used by God to CONVERT MANY.

I actually read an article many years ago (I think that it was in the "Reader's Digest") about how Rhode Island was the state with the nicest people in it. The author of the article investigated as to why this was, and his conclusion was that it was directly related to Charles Finney's preaching from many years ago and the lasting fruits from the same.
 
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Live4Him

Guest
#17
#17
EDIT:

Now that I think about it, it might not have been that Rhode Island was the state with the nicest people.

I think that I was actually working in Rochester, NY at that time, and the article was about how their city had been voted as being the city in the USA which had the nicest people in it as a testimony to the long-lasting results of Finney's preaching.

In either case, I would advise anybody reading this thread to read some of Finney's sermons for themselves before coming to any conclusions about the man. He definitely was NOT "a mongrel".
 
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Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#18
#18
Live4Him said:
It's not my bias.

Instead, it's your ignorance.

About 22 years ago, after I had already been a devout, God-fearing, Bible-reading, prayerful Christian for about 10 years, I read a book of sermons by Charles Finney.

After reading it, I commented to someone that I felt as if I were a rotten tree and that Finney was a sharp axe in the hand of Almighty God.

In other words, Finney's sermons were so uncompromisingly powerful that they led me to repent of several sins that had previously gone unnoticed in my own life.

This article, although it can give the wrong impression without prior knowledge of Finney, was definitely meant as a REBUKE for those who employ the types of methods outlined in the article. As Finney said, those types of things CONVERT NOBODY, and Finney was used by God to CONVERT MANY.

I actually read an article many years ago (I think that it was in the "Reader's Digest") about how Rhode Island was the state with the nicest people in it. The author of the article investigated as to why this was, and his conclusion was that it was directly related to Charles Finney's preaching from many years ago and the lasting fruits from the same.
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It's as simple as reading the opening statement. Where he says clearly his intent. I don't care what the rest of the article says because his opening statement is horrific. Even if all those rules are absolutely correct the opening statement is poison.
 
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Live4Him

Guest
#20
#20
Blackpowderduelist said:
It's as simple as reading the opening statement. Where he says clearly his intent. I don't care what the rest of the article says because his opening statement is horrific. Even if all those rules are absolutely correct the opening statement is poison.
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Instead, it's as simple as reading the title of the article which precedes the opening statement:

PREACHING SO AS TO CONVERT NOBODY.

In other words, all of things outlined in the article ARE TO BE SHUNNED unless your goal is to convert nobody, or, even worse, to make false converts.

When Finney preached, bars shut down and crime rates dropped BECAUSE PEOPLE GENUINELY REPENTED OF THEIR SINS.
 
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