50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

cv5 · Apr 25, 2021

That's a message to the church of Philadelphia. Not really useful to describe the future prophesied great tribulation.

For example, Revelation 2:10 was written to the church of Smyrna and it says "ye shall have tribulation ten days" but we don't use that to say the great tribulation lasts 10 days because we know the context isn't the same. Nice try tho.

Rev. 2:10
10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

I think you had better take some time to dig into a serious study of the seven letters to seven Churches...

Truth7t7 · Apr 25, 2021

VCO said:

Nobody is scoffing at the second coming, it's going to take place immediately after the tribulation, as scripture clearly teaches

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

cv5 · Apr 25, 2021

VCO said:

TDW is producing the finest exegesis on Christian Chat. By far. No comparison. Quite frankly I find it thrilling. He is the scholar that I always wished that I was....

cv5 · Apr 25, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

Absolutely correct. Then comes the millennial reign on earth, with Jesus as King reigning from His throne in Jerusalem. Completely fulfilling the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants. From the millennial temple so noted in Ezekiel 41 and beyond.

Runningman · Apr 25, 2021

cv5 said:

It's unreadable.

Exegesis should be clearly readable using conventional grammar and sentence structure. All of the arrows, parentheses, bold, italics, underlines, different colors, and font sizes don't follow any discernible standard.

VCO · Apr 26, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

YES, you are Scoffing at the Rapture and Pretrib. That is what it is talking about. You are a fulfillment of that Prophecy. I told you SON OF MAN, is when HE comes for HIS BRIDE, in the Clouds. Second COMING is when HE SETS FOOT on Terra Ferma, and beccomes KING OF ALL THE EARTH.

Zechariah 14:4 (NCV)
4 On that day he will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem. The Mount of Olives will split in two, forming a deep valley that runs east and west. Half the mountain will move toward the north, and half will move toward the south.

Zechariah 14:7 (NCV)
7 There will be no other day like it, and the LORD knows when it will come. There will be no day or night; even at evening it will still be light.

Zechariah 14:9 (NCV)
9 Then the LORD will be king over the whole world. At that time there will be only one LORD, and his name will be the only name.

Those Three Things will happen on that DAY as HE COMES TO MAKE WAR with the NATIONS, at the Second COMING

The RAPTURE HAPPENS EARLIER; Seven Years earlier. NOT MENTION of the SUN NOT SHINING, NOR the Moon not giving it's normal LIGHT.

A NORMAL DAY with NORMAL ACTIVITES:

Matthew 24:40-42 (NCV)
40 Two men will be in the field. One will be taken, and the other will be left.
41 Two women will be grinding grain with a mill. One will be taken, and the other will be left.
42 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day your Lord will come.

Truth7t7 · Apr 26, 2021

cv5 said:

The Second Coming Is (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom on Earth, Read It Real Slow

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end,

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Truth7t7 · Apr 26, 2021

Runningman said:

Unreadable Chaos!

Truth7t7 · Apr 26, 2021

VCO said:

Zechariah Chapter 14 Represents The Day Of The Lord, The Second Coming, The Eternal Kingdom In The New Heaven And Earth

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Truth7t7 · Apr 26, 2021

cv5 said:

Ezekiel Chapters 40-46 represents Ezekiel receiving the vision of the 2nd Zerubbabel Temple in the 25th year of the Babylonian Captivity, he was instructed in verse 4 below to show the vision to the house of Israel in the Captivity

The Zerubbabel Temple Was Built In 536BC, And Destroyed In 70AD By The Romans

Ezekiel 40:1-4KJV
1 In the five and twentieth year of our captivity, in the beginning of the year, in the tenth day of the month, in the fourteenth year after that the city was smitten, in the selfsame day the hand of the Lord was upon me, and brought me thither.
2 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south.
3 And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate.
4 And the man said unto me, Son of man, behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears, and set thine heart upon all that I shall shew thee; for to the intent that I might shew them unto thee art thou brought hither: declare all that thou seest to the house of Israel.

The Zerubbabel 2nd Temple,and Gods Instruction For Blood Sacrifice For Consecration And The (Sin Offering)

Ezekiel 43:18-21KJV
18 And he said unto me, Son of man, thus saith the Lord God; These are the ordinances of the altar in the day when they shall make it, to offer burnt offerings thereon, and to sprinkle blood thereon.
19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord God, a young bullock for a sin offering.
20 And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it.
21 Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary.

Absolutely · Apr 26, 2021

lamad said:

Sorry, but you really are not in agreement with John. Chapters 4 & 5 are the context of the first seal.
Why not look and ask John when Jesus got the book into His hands?

Rev. 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
A search is made for a man worthy of taking the book and opening the seals. In heaven, on earth and in hell.
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
This search ended in failure and John wrote, "no man was found." WHY Jesus not found? It is before He rose from the dead.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
John seemed to know the importance of getting this book opened (It gets Satan kicked off his throne as god of this world.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
The first thing to notice here is that TIME PASSED. Jesus NOT FOUND worthy before, but this search He WAS found worthy. What did He prevail over to become worthy? He prevailed over DEATH. So verse 5 shows us the time of His resurrection.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Here John saw Jesus ascended back into heaven and then immediately send the Holy Spirit down. TIME? Around 32 AD.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
The first thing Jesus did was get the book and begin opening the seals. WHEN? Around 32 AD.

Anyone can pull verses out of their context and make them say whatever their imagination thinks. Let's leave the first seal in its early church context and then we will know what it is.

Seal one, opened around 32 AD. It is the CHURCH with the GOSPEL.
This is a true statement. No one can find 2000 years between ANY of these verses. He got the book and immediately began opening seals. The truth is, God had been waiting nearly 4000 years to get someone qualified to open the seals. Jesus did not waste a minute, but started with the first seal immediately.

Note what John really wrote: Most people don't read it properly...

Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

It is a statement of fact. DID Jesus show John things in His future? He certainly did, many things. But notice what this verse does NOT say: It does NOT say I will shew thee ONLY things which must be hereafter. yet many people believe that is what it is saying. The point is, God started in His vision with John with a throne room WITHOUT JESUS. Why?

God wanted to show John THE BOOK, but chose to start the vision while the book was still in the hand of the FAther. Since Jesus took the book as soon as He ascended, SOMEHOW God would have to show John a vision of the past in a way that John and the readers would know it was past, not future.

So God showed John a throne room with Jesus absent, then the Holy Spirit still there, then a search for one worthy that ended in failure. Then another search that found Jesus worthy - all showing TIME and the movement of TIME. It pinpoints the time Jesus rose from the dead, then the time of His ascension and finally the time He sent the Holy Spirit down. And He took the book as soon as He arrived back in the throne room.

NO! Seal 2 is war, to represent one weapon God has allowed the devil to us to try and stop the gospel.

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

We must be consistent in our doctrine!

The 3rd seal is hunger or famine. The 4th seal is DEATH or pestilence. What did Jesus say?

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: [wars again] and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Again, we must to consistent: Jesus does not get to the end until verse 14, they jumps to the middle of the week. But before verse 14, Jesus is speaking of the church age, specifically "the end is not yet. John does not finish the church age until seal 5 for the martyrs of the church age.

I challenge you to study and show yourself approved! ;-)
Absolutely! Good point!

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! From the 7th SEAL to the 7th vial is 2520 days. And from the 7th trumpet to the 7th vial is 1260 days. God has MARKED (His word not mine) the 70th week with 7's.

Amazing that you left out that the one needed to open the seals was the God man. Jesus was already there in heaven.
Resurrected and in heaven as the God man.

It was not that they could not find him because he wasn't there. He was there. He was manifested as a lamb. Not as a man even though he was/is a man.
It is a revelation from Ruth.
The seals are the beginning of earths reclamation. Reclaiming the earth.
Only the kinsman redeemer can claim property.
That is WHY the seal opener had to be man. A worthy man. A KINSMAN.
Boaz represents Jesus. He was second in line to reclaim Naomi's property.
The catch was ruth. Ruth had to be included.
IOW Ruth was the human end of the business deal.
Naomi and her property the other half.
The title deed in Ruth points to the scroll in the Fathers hand.

Satan's lease is up.

Time to reclaim.

Absolutely · Apr 26, 2021

VCO said:

You both are sincere, but are sincerely WRONG. The Appearing in the Clouds is a Separate prior incident, about 7 years Prior to the SECOND COMING, and I CAN PROVE IT; but I doubt if you will even READ IT. Your brainwashed thoughts, are NOT TRUTH.

THIS VERSE IS ABSOLUTE TRUTH:

Matthew 25:13 (NCV)
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.

Yeshua SAID it, and YOU DOUBT IT, simply becauce YOU were taught different. That is PLAIN ENGLISH, and YOU proceed to DOUBT IT.

How many will not KNOW the Day or the Hour ? ? ?

Can't you see the Day or Hour is Known by ever combatant on the Armageddan Battle Field ? ? ?

Revelation 19:19 (NKJV)
19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

They are their to try to stop JESUS CHRIST from coming back.

DON'T YOU SEE, THE ONLY WAY THEY WILL NOT will not know the at Least the DAY, is if it was Pretribulation ? ? ?

It would take at least two months to gather the world's Armies in the Valley of Megiddo and Jerusalem, and TWO MONTHS is a LONG TIME. But HIS APPEARING, the one Known AS the RAPTURE will be gathered in a flash, as quick as a lightning flash.

Matthew 24:27 (NKJV)
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

1 Corinthians 15:51-58 (KJV)
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 (HCSB)
14 Since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, in the same way God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus.
15 For we say this to you by a revelation from the Lord: We who are still alive at the Lord’s coming will certainly have no advantage over those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Here is the tradition Feasts of TRUMPETS, in a Massianic Christian Church

Leviticus 23:24 (NASB)
24 "Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'In the seventh month on the first of the month you shall have a rest, a reminder by blowing of trumpets, a holy convocation.

The LAST TRUMP HAS NOTHING to do with the TRUMPET JUDGEMENTS. It is Part of the FEAST OF TRUMPETS, the very LAST TRUMP, and is traditionally held extra long, and is Called in JUDAISM the LAST TRUMP.

Here is what it SOUNDS LIKE:

Yep.
Last trump is blown every year at feast of trumpets.

The audience that heard "last trump" knew exactly what it was.

Absolutely · Apr 26, 2021

FreeGrace2 said:

the gatherings in rev 14 destroys completely any hope of your theory.

Psssst...your model has the dead in Christ raised after the living of rev 14.

Your only hope is to try and force either rev 14 as postrib....which will be comical...or to place the dead as rising SECOND....NOT FIRST.

But that error would raise even more obstacles.

Your comingling of the second coming with the rapture has Jesus on a horse with millions of riders blackening the sky, and AT THE VERY SAME TIME Jesus is solo and seated on a cloud with a sickle.....but get this....the 144k ETHNIC JEWS are ALREADY IN HEAVEN ....gathered as FIRSTFRUITS.

CAN WE SAY B U S T E D??????

lamad · Apr 26, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

Nobody is scoffing at the second coming, it's going to take place immediately after the tribulation, as scripture clearly teaches

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I have never met anyone who would disagree with this. We all believe that He is coming as Rev. 19 shows it. And Rev. 19 is certainly after the tribulation of those days.

lamad · Apr 26, 2021

Absolutely said:

Everyone knows it is Jesus who opens the seals. Of course He was there; He ascended around 32 AD and this was probably around 95 AD, so Jesus had been there for perhaps 60 some years. The point was, He was NOT SEEN in the vision.

Absolutely said:

No one questions that he was there AFTER He showed up in the throne room in chapter 5. When He was not there is in chapter 4. I will ask you the same exact question Jesus asked me when He taught me these things:

1. “Why did John not immediately see Me at the right hand of the Father in chapter four? I ascended back into heaven years before John saw this vision. There are over a dozen verses showing that I went to be at the right hand of the Father. In fact, Stephen saw me there. Why then did John not immediately see Me at the right hand of the Father?”

This is from Jesus Christ, the Author of the book. He KNOWS the intent He had when He caused John to write. His question makes good sense: this is HIS BOOK and HIS revealing. That makes it all the more strange that He was not seen at the right hand of the Father where Stephen saw Him. I did not eat pizza. I was not dreaming, I was wide awake. I heard His voice and His words. I might as well show you His other two questions.

2. “John watched a search to find one worthy to open the seals—a search that ended in failure—and that is the reason John wept much: no man was found worthy. However, if you read ahead, you find that I was found worthy to break the seals. Why then was I not found in that first search?” [I had been asking Him why we needed to know that John wept, and why much.]

3. “If you notice in chapter 4, the Holy Spirit was still in the throne room. I told the disciples that as soon as I ascended, I would send Him down. Why was the Holy Spirit still in the throne room in chapter 4?”

Before He asked me these questions He had said, about John weeping, "It shows timing." I could not find "timing" anywhere in these two chapters, so I kept bugging Him. After a week or so He said, "It also shows the movement of time. "

By this time I had five things He had said to me that I could not answer or find an answer to in these two chapters. After two or three frustrating weeks, He showed me how to answer. But for now, I will leave it for the readers to answer - if they can.

Here is where He suddenly "shows up" in the throne room:

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Notice that this is when He shows up and this is when He sent the Holy Spirit down. As Jesus said, "IT SHOWS TIMING." Make no mistake, the lamb was not there a moment before. God is showing John EXACTLY what He wants John to see.

Absolutely said:

I understand. The seals are sealing the BOOK that will allow the trumpets to be sounded and it is the 7th trumpet that gives the earth back to Jesus Christ, the rightful owner. The seals are to prevent anyone but the rightful owner to open this book.

lamad · Apr 26, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

TheDivineWatermark · Apr 26, 2021

Truth7t7 said:

We've been over this lesson in many past posts:

--Verse 24 says, "THEN [G1534 - eita] the end" (the word "cometh / comes" is not in the Greek text, here);

--this "THEN [G1534 - eita]" word is a "SEQUENCE" word only, with NO time-element attached (unlike another "then" word, "then [tote - G5119]" like is used in 2Th2:8a);

-- https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-24.htm ;

--so *this* text is not conveying "THEN *immediately* the end," but rather "THEN *sequentially* the end";

--the remainder of the context tells what must take place within that time-frame intervening ("FOR He must reign TILL...");

--and that is the EXACT "SEQUENCE" that Isaiah 24:21-22[23] shows, where the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words of that text PARALLELS the Revelation 19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 passage and its timing, i.e. His Second Coming to the earth / Armageddon;

--then Isaiah 24:21-22[23]'s SECOND "PUNISH" word of that text clearly comes after an intervening "time-period" which is identical to the SEQUENCE issues between Rev19 & 20;

...not to mention is identical to the SEQUENCE issues in our present text, 1Cor15:24-28;

...not to mention is identical to the Daniel 7:25,27 text, where v.27 (after a specific time-period in v.25 / 2nd half of trib) says, "the greatness of the kingdom UNDER the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High" which is also told of in v.22 "and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom"... where v.22's wording corresponds precisely with Revelation 20:4a "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them"

--EACH of these passages agree regarding the SEQUENCE issues

--and in Zech14:8 it says "And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: IN SUMMER AND IN WINTER SHALL IT BE." Several verses using the phrase "IN THAT DAY" indicating "a time-period" (i.e. "an era"), rather than meaning merely "a singular 24-hr day";

...and vv.11-12 are showing a CONTRAST between those who will LIVE (and exist following all "destruction") and those who will NOT live (those who "fought against Jerusalem"--SAME AS IN the Rev19:21 text I supplied above), where those who go on to LIVE in that time-period are given the instructions found in vv.16-19 (re: keeping the feast of Tabernacles... in Jerusalem... "from year to year" i.e yearly)

This text is governed by the "WE"... (speaking ONLY of "believers" here)

...so that, this text using the phrase "the dead" is not speaking of "the dead [/unsaved / 'lost' from all time periods]"... this CONTEXT is speaking ONLY of the "WE" (the SAVED / BELIEVERS)

As in the aforementioned paragraph I put, this text is governed by the "WE" and also (here ^ ) by the word "THIS"... "THIS corruptible" and "THIS mortal" (speaking only of: "the DEAD IN Christ" [the "WE" of this wider context]; and the "we which are ALIVE and remain" [also the "WE" of this wider context]--meaning, NONE of the "UNsaved / UNbelievers / LOST" are being spoken of in THIS CONTEXT)

Truth7t7 · Apr 26, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

The Second Coming Is (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom on Earth, Read It Real Slow

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end,

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Absolutely · Apr 26, 2021

Evmur said:

You keep changing "revealed", to , "in full power and years into his reign".

Like i said, you are projecting that with zero basis.

Then i say "show me proof"

And you re project the same assumption
I can make any jump with anyone.

But i need it to harmonize and line up with the rapture verses.

Incidentally, the rapture verses are all peacetime with buying and selling...normal everyday life.

By the time you say the rapture happens, the four horseman have destroyed the economy and 1/3 of the planet and people.

And btw the innumerable number( billions slaughtered) is before the ac is seated in the temple.

TheDivineWatermark · Apr 26, 2021

2 Corinthians 5:17 -

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new [G2537] creation. The old things have passed away; behold, the new [G2537] has come into being.

King James Bible
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new [G2537] creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new [G2537].

[this was true of you and of me the moment we "believed"/"trusted Christ for salvation"]

[same word used in 2Pet3:13 and Rev21:1 of the "NH&NE"]

50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

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