Who is right—Paul, David, or are they both right?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
If you can be perfect. Then Christ would not have had to come
its amazing the very law you love to push, does not even convict you of your own sin. Just like it did not convict the jews of their sin.
sadly, just like them, I fear you would joint them in crucifying Christ, because he would reject your self righteousness also,
ps. The word their means complete or mature, and yes I strive to be that. But I will never be foolish enough to think I made it, because the day I do think this, will be the day I lose the ability to be used of God
As has been clarified by many posts - scriptural literal definition of perfect In the contexts given is - complete. (Generally nothing to be with the idea of “sinlessness” in context.)
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I think you need to back up a
Minute and get context as to why crossnote replied to her the way he did
Instead of telling someone they are nit showing grace give the common courtesy of finding out why they replied that way
it was in response to what bulk said to me. Which taken in context would mean bulk was teaching sinless. Even though we know she don’t. It’s just she is trying to argue for the law and when she gets shown how Moses and Paul and James said if we are to fulfill the law we must be perfect (sinless). Otherwise we are cursed by the law
Balks response was Jesus told us to be perfect. In context that must mean perfect no sin
Minute and get context as to why crossnote replied to her the way he did
Instead of telling someone they are nit showing grace give the common courtesy of finding out why they replied that way
it was in response to what bulk said to me. Which taken in context would mean bulk was teaching sinless. Even though we know she don’t. It’s just she is trying to argue for the law and when she gets shown how Moses and Paul and James said if we are to fulfill the law we must be perfect (sinless). Otherwise we are cursed by the law
Balks response was Jesus told us to be perfect. In context that must mean perfect no sin
In the quote used in that particular post I responded to, Blik clarifIes that sinlessness is not humanly possible ... which was why I said what I did.
Maybe you are right. Maybe the person was responding to another earlier post or response entirely.... but if the quote was not what the poster was replying to - why use it in the quote Above their response?
This was clearly what I responded to as shown by the quotes in my post.
I don’t think I have acted unreasonably in my assumptions given the above.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
By the way
The law said we are to be perfect. I proved that from three sources.
You can spin it however you want. But in attempting to follow the law. You fail By your own admission that you are not perfect.
I helped you my giving you the meaning of the Greek word used for 'perfect' in Matthew 5, but you spurned it.
Then I ASKED this..."Blik are you trying to make a case that you are perfect or can attain a state of perfection?" I never accused you of being perfect. I asked.
Now, just because I claim the word should be more accurately be translated 'mature' or 'complete' doesn't mean I think people should abuse God's grace and live sinfully.
Titus 2:11-12 KJV
[11] For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, [12] Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Moses said perfection is required according to the law
Paul agreed. and stated plainly whoever is under the law is under a curse. Because no one is pefect
James said if we keep the whole law (perfect) Yet stumble in one area, we are guilty of the law (cursed)
do you agree with these three men?
Psalm 119 speaks about "law," "precepts," "testimonies," "commandments," "judgments," "ways," "word," "truth," all pertaining to every written or spoken word of God to mankind.
To "keep" or "follow" them pertains to "seeking," "meditating," "remembering," "loving," "considering," "beholding."
Psalm 119 is a very important Psalm for me because it is become my prayer that I will remain obedient (with God's help) and he will remain faithful to me. As I don't know what is proper to pray for, God helps me with Psalm 119. Without Psalm 119, I wouldn't know what to do.
To "keep" or "follow" them pertains to "seeking," "meditating," "remembering," "loving," "considering," "beholding."
Psalm 119 is a very important Psalm for me because it is become my prayer that I will remain obedient (with God's help) and he will remain faithful to me. As I don't know what is proper to pray for, God helps me with Psalm 119. Without Psalm 119, I wouldn't know what to do.
[note: I have not read through this thread... just skimming this last page = ) ]
If Matt5:48 is what is being referenced, the "BE" is in the "future indicative," so should read more like this:
"You shall be [future indicative] perfect, therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect."
["future INDICATIVE" is not the same as an "IMPERATIVE [/COMMAND]" - see 5:48 Matthew 5:48 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub.com) ]
["For apart from ME [/JESUS], ye can do nothing"
John 15:5]
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
So then you would disagree with BLK that we are to obey and follow the law. Since the requirment for obeying the law as shown is perfection then correct?
All the verses that tell us to repent of our sin. Also Matt. 5:48.
Scripture tells us to repent, that we lie if we say we are perfect, that obedience is not what God bases forgiveness on, that we are to be perfect, that we are made righteous only through Christ. All of these scripture are truth.
One poster tells us that if we repent of our sins so we want to be perfect, we are saying that we are, of our own doing, telling a lie for if we said that we would be lying. To say we repent of sin and want to be perfect is NOT stating that we have, of our own doing, made ourselves perfect.
Why don't you talk TO that poster instead of ABOUT him/her?
You are saying if we follow scripture, we would not obey law. There is no scripture telling us to disobey the law, you are making a serious mistake to disagree with scripture.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
No, I am not saying that at all, as usual, you have no idea what I am saying so you have to lie about me. Does it make you feel good?
moses, paul and james all agree, if we are to keep the law. We MUST be PERFECT.
for some reason, you call them a liar, and they must not know what they are talking about
for whoever is under the law is under a curse. Because cursed is the one who does not obey every word,
those are pauls words, quoting what moses said, and in agreement with James who said if we keep the whole law yet stumble in one point (commit one sin) we are guilty
your not arguing with me, your arguing with three men who wrote the word of God
the law was not given to help us live righteous lives, it was given to PROVE how unrighteous we are, and POINT us to christ
yet you open thread after thread telling us how we should keep the law, a law we can not keep, because it was not meant for that purpose,
You are quite adept at putting words in peoples mouth and then not apologizing afterwards.
My aim is not to argue with you or anyone, and I most certainly absolutely would not want to say anything about you that is not true. I am not speaking on this side about you at any time, I am speaking about scripture,
You asked Tararose if she would disagree with Blik who said we are to obey the law since the requirement is perfection.
I took this to mean that I said salvation requires perfection, and of course it does not. It requires faith. If you agree that I say it requires faith not perfection, then it is true that I completely misunderstood you.
Please, please we are speaking of scripture without judging people. Any accusing of others is completely out of line and just interferes with our search for the true God of scripture. If I have accused you of anything, please forgive me. I did not mean to.