Justification ongoing?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#21
#21
mailmandan said:
James is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains “alone” - barren of works (James 2:14) and not authentic faith that trusts in Jesus Christ “alone” for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Hence the confusion for some when they see the word “alone” in James 2:24, which leads to the faulty conclusion that man is saved by both faith and works.
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Amen

James called it a claimed faith. Not a true faith and said it was dead

a dead faith is lifeless. that is why there is no work.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#22
Apr 21, 2021
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#22
mailmandan said:
James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came through faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

So the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (justified) is a one time thing and creates no dilemma for OSAS.
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Well said and well documented as usual. Thanks for that.

I agree with you; however, OSAS has many other dilemmas. But that's for another time.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#23
Aug 4, 2020
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#23
phil36 said:
That's correct you can't see because you look through the lense that only Paul's writings are for Christians so you discount everything else.

My own faith is not on its on it produces works that prove faith... and yes -

I am saved by Grace alone, Through Faith alone, In Christ alone, According to Scripture alone, For God's Glory alone.
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So if you have no works ,your not saved?
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#24
Aug 4, 2020
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#24
If there's no works ,we're not saved ? Is this the idea ?
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#25
Aug 4, 2020
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#25
mailmandan said:
James is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains “alone” - barren of works (James 2:14) and not authentic faith that trusts in Jesus Christ “alone” for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Hence the confusion for some when they see the word “alone” in James 2:24, which leads to the faulty conclusion that man is saved by both faith and works.
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So we're not saved by faith alone ?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#32
#32
mailmandan said:
Trusting in Jesus Christ 'alone' for salvation and not in Jesus Christ + works.
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Amen

God supplied the way. DO we trust him. Or do we merely believe.

Those who trust will not have a claimed faith only. they will not be hearers only and not doers. Because they have true faith and because God has entered them and changed them.

again. some can not comprehend this fact. SO they claim James was not written to us. Which hurts the argument of what James was trying to say,
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#33
Apr 7, 2014
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#33
eternally-gratefull said:
Amen

God supplied the way. DO we trust him. Or do we merely believe.

Those who trust will not have a claimed faith only. they will not be hearers only and not doers. Because they have true faith and because God has entered them and changed them.
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The demons merely believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) but they are not trusting in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved. (Acts 16:31) Their trust is in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#34
#34
mailmandan said:
The demons merely believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) but they are not trusting in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved. (Acts 16:31) Their trust is in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
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Amen

True faith works. False faith may play some games, but they will never work,
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#36
Aug 4, 2020
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#36
What different works do Jehovah witnesses do thats different ?
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#37
Apr 7, 2014
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#37
throughfaith said:
So trusting alone then we recieve the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption?
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Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed unto/for the day of redemption.

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#38
Aug 4, 2020
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#38
mailmandan said:
Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed unto/for the day of redemption.

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
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Amen
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#39
May 24, 2014
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#39
ResidentAlien said:
It's commonly thought that "justification" (to make just or innocent) is a one-time thing; this has always been my view. However, something in James jumped out at me a couple of days ago which I've been thinking about ever since:

"You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."—James 2:24

Works are ongoing; they are an indicator of our faith. Therefore it stands to reason that justification is ongoing, not just a one-time thing. This creates quite the dilemma for the once saved, always saved doctrine.

I would love to be proven wrong about this. What else could it mean?
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You are correct in your first assertion that justification by faith in the shed blood of Jesus happens when we are born again. James is simply saying that we see that a man is justified when we see good works and fruit-bearing later on. No confliction whatsoever. James is neither preaching works-based salvation nor works-maintained salvation. God bless.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#40
Aug 4, 2020
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#40
What would be the issue IF James was saying to the 12 tribes that Justification was not through faith ' alone ' ?
 
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