John Teaches Eternal Security; Demonic To Deny It

[Atwood]

How did that boat save Noah from an that evil world?

Butch, you do ask questions.
Let me ask you one:

How do you know anything at all?

Do you regard scripture as infallible final proof?

 

[Atwood]

Nor did you explain why John would command Christians "Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father." if salvation cannot be lost. One is either "in Christ" or outside of Christ, no inbetween position. How could they fall from Christ if that were impossible? Can a Christian be saved if the gospel which he has heard does not remain in him?

SeeBass, let me give you a question to ponder on "abide in Christ," which you seem to imply means to be saved. (But didn't you argue once that no one was saved in this life before judgment? Or was that someone else?)

At any rate, scripture says in John 15 ~"If you abide in Me, and My word abide in you, you shall ask what you will, & it shall be done to you."

Now if to "abide in Christ" means "to be saved," then everyone who is saved asks whatever he wishes, & it is done to him. In other words, If abide in Christ meant to be saved, every saved person would have a blank check & never get a prayer unanswered (always a yes answer). So if anyone prays for something & doesn't get it, he would know that he was not saved.

So then Paul wasn't saved because Paul asked 3 X for a thorn in the flesh to be removed; but it was not removed!

To abide in Christ makes sense only as to abide in fellowship with Christ, not as meaning salvation.

Now once you stop dismissing Christ as mere chance-giver, repent of making water & human works an idol, take the position of the publican (God be merciful to me a sinner), and actually trust the Lord Jesus with your destiny; you should understand these things better.

 

[newbirth]

John 3
even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. He who believes on him is not judged: he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed on the name of the only Son of God. . . .

He who believes on the Son has eternal life;

John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say to you, He who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6
Jesus said to them, I am the bread of life: he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes on me shall never thirst. But I said to you, that you have seen me, and yet believe not. All that which the Father gives me shall come to me; and him who comes to me I will in no wise cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that of all that which he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who who beholds the Son and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Verily, verily, I say to you, He who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever.

John 10
But you do not believe because you are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and
I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, . . . .

Atwood do you not understand what "should/shall" means ...

 

[Atwood]

Atwood posted:John 3
even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. He who believes on him is not judged: he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed on the name of the only Son of God. . . .

He who believes on the Son has eternal life;

John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say to you, He who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6
Jesus said to them, I am the bread of life: he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes on me shall never thirst. But I said to you, that you have seen me, and yet believe not. All that which the Father gives me shall come to me; and him who comes to me I will in no wise cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that of all that which he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who who beholds the Son and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Verily, verily, I say to you, He who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever.

John 10
But you do not believe because you are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and
I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, . . . .
NewB responded:

Atwood do you not understand what "should/shall" means ...

For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν
μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλ᾿ ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον. John 3:16

μὴ ἀπόληται = should not perish.
μὴ = not
ἀπόληται = (should) perish
(no actual word "should" in Greek; that is an English periphrasis)

Do you understand, NewB?

The point is that God's intended purpose
(expressed by ἵνα followed by the subjunctive mood)
in giving His Son to die on the cross was that everyone who believes should have eternal life. There is no should-doubt expressed about having eternal life if one believes. But Christ's death on the cross does have an uncertain outcome in the life of individuals (should not perish). And the "whosoever" rules out anything essentially needed besides believe. His death paid for everyone's sins, but to receive that benefit, one must believe.

Some will not trust the Son of God as Savior; some dismiss Him as a mere chance-giver, also making water & works idols, trusting them as savior.

But for those who just can't get it, there are plenty of times where the plan of salvation is expressed without subjunctive mood (may/should).

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Answer: Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.
Πίστευσον ἐπὶ τὸν κύριον Ἰησοῦν καὶ σωθήσῃ.

Πίστευσον = believe (Aorist active imperative mood, 2nd person singular). Aorist is employed where a singular act at a point of time is meant. Believe, & just believe once!
Believe once, so far as this command & its result follows
(not that anyone will ever stop believing -- it doesn't speak about stopping belief or continuing belief).

Πίστευσον = believe once, decisively, no process of continued belief required.

ἐπὶ τὸν κύριον Ἰησοῦν = on the Lord Jesus
κύριον = Lord. He is LORD = YHWH; He must be adequately defined (not Jesús the Mexican mechanic.)

καὶ σωθήσῃ = and you shall be saved (future passive indicative 2nd person singular).

There are no "mays" or "shoulds" here.

What is bread for your sack?

Take the knee now, and call out, "God be merciful to me a sinner," and claim the promise of Romans 10:13 "For whosever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be saved" (no mays or shoulds). That is the call of faith.

Without delay, drop to the knees, cry out to the Savior,
"God be merciful to me a sinner, and save me from sin & myself. Forgive me for trusting in water. Make me a child of God, please give me your free gift of eternal life & pardon all my sins. I do now trust the Lord Jesus as my only & sufficient Savior, and I depend completely on His substitutionary death as the complete payment for all my sins."

 

[SeaBass]

SeeBass, let me give you a question to ponder on "abide in Christ," which you seem to imply means to be saved. (But didn't you argue once that no one was saved in this life before judgment? Or was that someone else?)

At any rate, scripture says in John 15 ~"If you abide in Me, and My word abide in you, you shall ask what you will, & it shall be done to you."

Now if to "abide in Christ" means "to be saved," then everyone who is saved asks whatever he wishes, & it is done to him. In other words, If abide in Christ meant to be saved, every saved person would have a blank check & never get a prayer unanswered (always a yes answer). So if anyone prays for something & doesn't get it, he would know that he was not saved.

So then Paul wasn't saved because Paul asked 3 X for a thorn in the flesh to be removed; but it was not removed!

To abide in Christ makes sense only as to abide in fellowship with Christ, not as meaning salvation.

Now once you stop dismissing Christ as mere chance-giver, repent of making water & human works an idol, take the position of the publican (God be merciful to me a sinner), and actually trust the Lord Jesus with your destiny; you should understand these things better.

"Abide in Christ" IS salvation, only a person with a theological bias would say it is not. There is no such thing as one NOT abiding in Christ yet saved anyway.

No one can ask for and get what he wishes. I cannot ask Christ to allow me to live in sin yet still save me anyway for that violates Christ's words/promises. What the Christians ask for must be harmony with the will of the Lord. It was not the will of the Lord Paul's thorn in the flesh be removed.


John commanded ' "Let that therefore abide (imperative mood) in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father."

John is COMMANDING to let the gospel continue abide in them. Can one be saved without the gospel, Rom 1:16? No.

Therefore IF IF IF they heed John's command and continue to abide in the gospel they would also continue to abide in Christ and God. The implied implication is not abiding in the Christ's gospel is not abiding in Christ = lost.


Jn 15:2 "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit."
Jn 15:3 "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you."
Jn 15:4 "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me."
Jn 15:5 "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."
Jn 15:6 "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
Jn 15:7 "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you."

What happens if a Christian does not abide in Christ? Cast into the fire and burned.

 

[SeaBass]

Yes, it does teach eternal security; for it states that those who are of us (in Body of Christ) CONTINUE with us (in the Body of Christ.) Those who go out from the group of Christians show that they are not "of us" (of those saved in the Body of Christ.


1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for

if they had been of us,
they would have continued with us.

But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.




Acts 15:5 does not say that these heretics were saved. The "went out from us" does not mean as in 1 John that they broke with the church of Jerusalem; it only indicates that they were among the Christians in Jerusalem. But as 1 John says, if they "went out" (apostatizing) it proves they were never saved, never part of the secure family of God.



Your quote from John says nothing about salvation -- the word does not occur. "In" has a number of meanings. 1 John takes up the topic of John 15, abiding in Christ (which you render "continue" above). That topic is that of remaining in fellowship with Christ. Obviously Christians sin and lose fellowship without losing salvation (oxymoron). The shepherd seeks out his wandering sheep & takes restorative measures. The you insert "gospel" where the text says "that which ye have heard from the beginning" without proving what doctrine is meant there. Is it not remarkable how scripture never says "lose salvation"?

BDAG on the Preposition ἐν (en; translated often, but not always, as "in" in English):

c. esp. in Paul. or Joh. usage, to designate a close personal relation in which the referent of the ἐν-term is viewed as the controlling influence: under the control of, under the influence of,
in close association with
(cp. ἐν τῷ Δαυιδ εἰμί 2 Km 19:44 [2 Samuel]):
["we have also an interest in David above you"]

of Christ εἶναι, μένειν ἐν τῷ πατρί (ἐν τῷ θεῷ)
[to be, to abide in the father (in the God)]
J 10:38; 14:10f ;

and of Christians 1J 3:24; 4:13, 15f; be or abide in Christ J 14:20; 15:4f;
μένειν ἐν τῷ υἱῷ καὶ ἐν τῷ πατρί 1J 2:24.
ἔργα ἐν θεῷ εἰργασμένα done in communion with God J 3:21 (but s. 1e above). [works in God worked]

—In Paul the relation of the individual to Christ is very oft. expressed by such phrases as
ἐν Χριστῷ, ἐν κυρίῳ etc., also vice versa ;
ἐν ἐμοὶ Χριστός Gal 2:20, but here in the sense of a above

—Paul has the most varied expressions for this new life-principle:
life in Christ Ro 6:11, 23;
love in Christ 8:39; grace, which is given in Christ 1 Cor 1:4;
freedom in Chr. Gal 2:4;
blessing in Chr. 3:14;
unity in Chr. vs. 28.
στήκειν ἐν κυρίῳ stand firm in the Lord Phil 4:1;
εὑρεθῆναι ἐν Χ. be found in Christ 3:9;
εἶναι ἐν Χ. 1 Cor 1:30;
οἱ ἐν Χ. Ro 8:1.—1 Pt 5:14;
κοιμᾶσθαι ἐν Χ.,
ἀποθνῄσκειν ἐν κυρίῳ 1 Cor 15:18.—Rv 14:13;
ζῳοποιεῖσθαι 1 Cor 15:22.

—The formula is esp. common w. verbs that denote a conviction, hope, etc.
πεποιθέναι Gal 5:10; Phil 1:14; 2 Th 3:4.
παρρησίαν ἔχειν Phlm 8.
πέπεισμαι Ro 14:14.
ἐλπίζειν Phil 2:19.
καύχησιν ἔχειν Ro 15:17; 1 Cor 15:31.
τὸ αὐτὸ φρονεῖν Phil 4:2.
ὑπακούειν Eph 6:1.
λαλεῖν 2 Cor 2:17; 12:19.
ἀλήθειαν λέγειν Ro 9:1.
λέγειν καὶ μαρτύρεσθαι Eph 4:17.

But also apart fr. such verbs, in numerous pass. it is used w. verbs and nouns of the most varied sort, often without special emphasis, to indicate
the scope within which someth. takes place or has taken place, or
to designate someth. as being in close assoc. w. Christ,
and can be rendered, variously,

in connection with, in intimate association with, keeping in mind ἁγιάζεσθαι 1 Cor 1:2, or
ἅγιος ἐν Χ. Phil 1:1;
ἀσπάζεσθαί τινα 1 Cor 16:19.
δικαιοῦσθαι Gal 2:17.
κοπιᾶν Ro 16:12.
παρακαλεῖν 1 Th 4:1.
προσδέχεσθαί τινα Ro 16:2; Phil 2:29.
χαίρειν 3:1; 4:4, 10.
γαμηθῆναι ἐν κυρίῳ marry in the Lord=marry a Christian 1 Cor 7:39.

προϊστάμενοι ὑμῶν ἐν κυρίῳ your Christian leaders (in the church) 1 Th 5:12
(but s. προΐστημι 1 and 2).

—εὐάρεστος Col 3:20.
νήπιος 1 Cor 3:1.
φρόνιμος 4:10.
παιδαγωγοί vs. 15.
ὁδοί vs. 17.

Hence used in periphrasis for ‘Christian’
οἱ ὄντες ἐν κυρίῳ Ro 16:11;
ἄνθρωπος ἐν Χ. 2 Cor 12:2;
αἱ ἐκκλησίαι αἱ ἐν Χ. Gal 1:22; 1 Th 2:14;
νεκροὶ ἐν Χ. 4:16;
ἐκλεκτός Ro 16:13.
δόκιμος vs. 10.
δέσμιος Eph 4:1.
πιστὸς διάκονος 6:21;
ἐν Χ. γεννᾶν τινα become someone’s parent in the Christian life 1 Cor 4:15.
τὸ ἔργον μου ὑμεῖς ἐστε ἐν κυρίῳ 9:1.

—The use of ἐν πνεύματι as a formulaic expression is sim.:
[in Spirit]
ἐν πν. εἶναι be under the impulsion of the spirit, i.e. the new self, as opposed to
ἐν σαρκί under the domination of the old self Ro 8:9;
cp. ἐν νόμῳ 2:12.
λαλεῖν speak under divine inspiration 1 Cor 12:3.
ἐγενόμην ἐν πνεύματι I was in a state of inspiration Rv 1:10; 4:2;
opp. ἐν ἑαυτῷ γενόμενος came to himself Ac 12:11 (cp. X., An. 1, 5, 17 et al.).

—The expr. ἐν πν. εἶναι is also used to express the idea that someone is
under the special infl. of
a good or even an undesirable spirit: Mt 22:43; Mk 12:36; Lk 2:27; 1 Cor 12:3; Rv 17:3; 21:10. ἄνθρωπος ἐν πν. ἀκαθάρτῳ [in unclean spirit] (ὤν) Mk 1:23 .

—ἐν τῷ πονηρῷ κεῖσθαι be in the power of the evil one 1J 5:19.
οἱ ἐν νόμῳ those who are subject to the law Ro 3:19.
ἐν τῷ Ἀδὰμ ἀποθνῄσκειν die because of a connection w. Adam 1 Cor 15:22.

—On the formula ἐν ὀνόματι (Χριστοῦ) [in name of Christ]
The OT is the source of the expr. ὀμνύναι ἔν τινι swear by someone or someth. (oft. LXX) Mt 5:34ff; 23:16, 18ff; Rv 10:6;
παραγγέλλομέν σοι ἐν Ἰησοῦ Ac 19:14 v.l.
The usage in ὁμολογεῖν ἔν τινι acknowledge someone Mt 10:32; Lk 12:8 (s. ὁμολογέω 4b) is Aramaic.


-------------------


[/FONT][/COLOR]
The text does not say "fall from Christ."
I suggest that you major on texts that say save, salvation, Savior; or receive eternal life, instead of jumping to conclusions where that language is not used.

John does say,
"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish."
Why can't you believe it?
Why write off the SAvior as a mere chance-giver.

Trust the Savior today: Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

IF those John speaks about were NEVER of them, then that is a specific example and not the rule.

Acts 15:5 "But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed...."

These Pharisees were Christians that believed, no heretics. Luke did not say they faked their belief but actually believed.
You call them heretics, Luke calls them believers. You are re-writing scripture to make cover for your man-made theology.

Acts 15:24 "Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:"

These believing Pharisees went out from the church at Jerusalem.

2 Pet 2:1 "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."

Here is another example of false teacher that had been bought (past tense) by the Lord.


Jn 15:6 "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch,........ and cast into the fire, and they are burned."

 

[Butch5]

You referred to a "He," thus it is valid to ask you who the He be.

So Butch I take it that you deny the Trinity; thus when you speak of God & the Lord Jesus, you don't even mean what the Bible means by it. So why argue other matters until you figure out who God is? You have to confess that Jesus is YHWH, agree with God on that one for starters, have the object of faith adequately defined.

Don't worry, I know who God is and who Jesus is. However, you still have not answered my question. He is first person singular, three is plural, how does that work? Youre asking me about the Trinity yet you won't answer this question about the Trinity.

Scripture:

There is none like unto God, O Jeshurun, Who rideth upon the heavens for thy help,
And in his excellency on the skies.
The eternal God is thy dwelling-place,
And underneath are the everlasting arms.

You're begging the question. You know God is eternal because it says He is owlam and you know owlam means eternal because it used of God. It's a circular argument.

Your saying it proves nothing. How do you know that none of these are proof?
And BTW, how do you know what is truth at all?

It's not my saying it, I've shown it.

Another red herring.

You haven't posted any scripture that proves "not eternal." You have vociferated on the subject.

Ah, but I have. I already posted the passage from Jude but here's another.

KJV Leviticus 7:34 For the wave breast and the heave shoulder have I taken of the children of Israel from off the sacrifices of their peace offerings, and have given them unto Aaron the priest and unto his sons by a statute for ever from among the children of Israel. (Lev 7:34 KJV)

Is the Aaronic priesthood eternal? Nope, Paul said there was a change in the priesthood.

[/QUOTE]

11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. (Heb 7:11-12 NKJ)

Owlam, translated aion, does not mean eternal.

[quote}And why do you refer to scripture? Do you believe that the Bible is infallible? Or are you playing games?

Ah the fallacy of poisoning the well, that's three so far.

Sodom & G are an example

πρόκεινται δεῖγμα πυρὸς αἰωνίου δίκην ὑπέχουσαι.

are set forth (as) an example of eternal fire punishment suffering.

S & G are set forth as an example of eternal fire, suffering punishment.


NIV: Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.



No, but S & G gave a picture of the fire which is eternal.

And they're not still burning, thus aionios doesn't mean eternal.

Lexicons disagree with you, Butch.
God is eternal, & the term is used for Him in His relationship to time.
And you have no proof for your canards on aionios.

As long as I agree with Scripture that all that matters. You can have the Lexicons, they're
the writings of men.

I wrote up a paper onαἰώνιος in graduate school long ago.

I guess it's time for an update.

 

[Atwood]

YES, it is demonic to deny that the Savior is a savior & make Him a mere chance-giver. He shall save His people from their sins.
It isn't OSAS. IT is OSS = once saved, saved! If you are saved, then by golly you ARE saved! Save/salvation & lose/lost never occur together in the same verse in the Bible. Motes in eyes have nothing to do with it. And no, you have not seen any Christian fall from his faith. All you have seen is professed Christians fall from faith. If you see a professed Christian fall, you have no way of knowing that he was really born again. The issue is that a man must trust the Lord Jesus as Savior, not as mere chance-giver. So if you think you can lose your salvation, that evidences your failure to trust the Lord Jesus as your Savior. And you are distorting salvation into chance-receiving.
As 1 John says: APOSTASY PROVES THAT A PROFESSED CHRISTIAN WAS NEVER A REAL BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us.

 

[Atwood]

Is it not interesting how that those who want to quote scripture to prove a man can lose salvation (oxymoron, unbiblical concept) quote verses in which neither the word salvation nor the word lose occur?

 

[Atwood]

And they're not still burning, thus aionios doesn't mean eternal.

Nonsense, you confuse an example, with the thing.

 

[Truth7t7]

John 3
even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. He who believes on him is not judged: he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed on the name of the only Son of God. . . .

He who believes on the Son has eternal life;

John 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say to you, He who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6
Jesus said to them, I am the bread of life: he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes on me shall never thirst. But I said to you, that you have seen me, and yet believe not. All that which the Father gives me shall come to me; and him who comes to me I will in no wise cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that of all that which he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who who beholds the Son and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Verily, verily, I say to you, He who believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever.

John 10
But you do not believe because you are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and
I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, . . . .

Your 100% Correct (Eternal Security), Every Saved Believer Is Sealed By God The Holy Spirit, And This Is Until The Day Of Redemption

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption

 

[Blik]

Scripture tells us that unforgiven sin means death, that is scripture. Scripture does not say that if you were once saved, then unforgiven sin does not mean death. To say this is what scripture tells us is to put words in the Lord's mouth and that is very, very wrong to do.

 

[oyster67]

John Teaches Eternal Security; Demonic To Deny It

Pretty strong accusation. No much room for discussion here. Sometimes we can be wrong even if we are right.

 

[Dino246]

This thread is very musical...

it has a lot of banned members.

 

[lamad]

John Teaches Eternal Security
Hebrews 6 teaches one can lose it.
.

 

[oyster67]

This thread is very musical...

it has a lot of banned members.

Very clever I almost missed that one.

 

[oyster67]

I guess it's time for an update.

Amen on that, banned Butch.

Hebrews
10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
10:21 And [having] an high priest over the house of God;
10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of [our] faith without wavering; (for he [is] faithful that promised
10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

 

[Runningman]

Interested in how anyone sees these two passages:

1 John 2:19
19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


Hebrews 6:4-6
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[GiveThanks]

1 John 2:19
19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Are you referring to the banned members?

They are Ok. They went on to tour some other sites.

 

[kaylagrl]

YES, it is demonic to deny that the Savior is a savior & make Him a mere chance-giver. He shall save His people from their sins.

Soooo six yrs and this thread jumps to life? What's the deal? rofl.