When did (will) Jesus open the first seal in Rev. 6 and what does it represent?
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nonsense
i'm not correcting John; i'm correcting you -- let's recap:
so you see dear neighbor, what is written is true, but your interpretation is not. your interpretation is blasphemous, because it attributes imperfection to God. i am belaboring the point because fear of God is fundamental to comprehending scripture and it's a fundamental mistake in the pretext underpinning all of your arguments. why should i bother trying to fix the 4th floor while the foundation is bad? so i'm pointing straight at that foundation and can't move on to anything else until it's fixed.
i told you literally 20 hours ago: see post #138
but you thought the scripture was irrelevant and meaningless.
then i explained it to you bluntly this morning.
why are you still acting like i didn't tell you? why are you still asking? do you still not understand?
i'm not correcting John; i'm correcting you -- let's recap:
- John says "none was found worthy"
- lamad says that means no one was worthy
- lamad says this means God was not worthy
- the truth is that God is worthy and is never not worthy
- the truth is that God hides Himself and reveals Himself
- the truth is that John says The Worthy One was not found, and then The Worthy One appeared
so you see dear neighbor, what is written is true, but your interpretation is not. your interpretation is blasphemous, because it attributes imperfection to God. i am belaboring the point because fear of God is fundamental to comprehending scripture and it's a fundamental mistake in the pretext underpinning all of your arguments. why should i bother trying to fix the 4th floor while the foundation is bad? so i'm pointing straight at that foundation and can't move on to anything else until it's fixed.
i told you literally 20 hours ago: see post #138
but you thought the scripture was irrelevant and meaningless.
then i explained it to you bluntly this morning.
why are you still acting like i didn't tell you? why are you still asking? do you still not understand?
Revelation 5
1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
The great question:
2 And I saw a strong angel (an archangel) proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
No one answered?
There was a large and immense crowd in the heavenly environment
The question was yet sounding to the crowd
verses 11 to 14
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the living beings and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive Power, and Riches, and Wisdom, and Strength, and Honour, and Glory, and Blessing.
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and Honor, and Glory, and Power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14 And the four living beings said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever
THE WRONG CONCEPTION OF THE APOSTLE JOHN, THE GUEST
verses 3 and 4
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4 And I -JOHN- wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
John wept much because he thought that no MAN was found worthy to OPEN and to READ the book, neither to look thereon-(verse 3)
VERSE 4 - John, AS A GUEST, in a first moment he did think that "no man was found worthy to open the book and breaks up its seven seals, neither to look thereon" ; for the Apostle John, even Jesus would not go to open the book and reveal the secrets that were described therein. But one of the elders took care to undo this misperception of the Apostle, as we can see in verses 5 and 6 which explains this by itself, as follows:
5 And one of the elders saith unto John, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
THE EYES OF JOHN WERE OPENED BY ONE OF THE ELDERS, THEN HE SAW THE LAMB - JESUS
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four living beings , and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8 And when he had taken the book, the four living beings and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
The great question:
2 And I saw a strong angel (an archangel) proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
No one answered?
There was a large and immense crowd in the heavenly environment
The question was yet sounding to the crowd
verses 11 to 14
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the living beings and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive Power, and Riches, and Wisdom, and Strength, and Honour, and Glory, and Blessing.
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and Honor, and Glory, and Power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14 And the four living beings said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever
THE WRONG CONCEPTION OF THE APOSTLE JOHN, THE GUEST
verses 3 and 4
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. 4 And I -JOHN- wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
John wept much because he thought that no MAN was found worthy to OPEN and to READ the book, neither to look thereon-(verse 3)
VERSE 4 - John, AS A GUEST, in a first moment he did think that "no man was found worthy to open the book and breaks up its seven seals, neither to look thereon" ; for the Apostle John, even Jesus would not go to open the book and reveal the secrets that were described therein. But one of the elders took care to undo this misperception of the Apostle, as we can see in verses 5 and 6 which explains this by itself, as follows:
5 And one of the elders saith unto John, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
THE EYES OF JOHN WERE OPENED BY ONE OF THE ELDERS, THEN HE SAW THE LAMB - JESUS
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four living beings , and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8 And when he had taken the book, the four living beings and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
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You can read it in every English translation and it is going to say basically the same thing: JESUS was not found to be worthy to take the book and open the seals in that first search. That is why John wept. That search ended in failure.
You have wasted a whole day arguing against a scripture, and at the end of the day, it says the same thing. Why not just believe what John wrote and try to answer the question: WHY was Jesus not found it that first search?
You have sidestepped this question all day long. These verses will say the same thing tomorrow.
You have wasted a whole day arguing against a scripture, and at the end of the day, it says the same thing. Why not just believe what John wrote and try to answer the question: WHY was Jesus not found it that first search?
You have sidestepped this question all day long. These verses will say the same thing tomorrow.
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I think It can be similar , but it may be also something more deep and linked, for example, to the mystery of our current resurrection in Christ.
The event showed to John takes place in the third heaven that will be established in this current millennium. Luke 20:v.35-36 show us how is the third heaven-check it out.
Colossians 3:v.1 to 4
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall APPEAR, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.
Ephesians 2:v.4 to 10
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come (this time arrived) he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
The subject is abundant as you can see, for example, in Ephesians 1:v.3 to 23, among others Scriptures.
The event showed to John takes place in the third heaven that will be established in this current millennium. Luke 20:v.35-36 show us how is the third heaven-check it out.
Colossians 3:v.1 to 4
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall APPEAR, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.
Ephesians 2:v.4 to 10
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come (this time arrived) he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
The subject is abundant as you can see, for example, in Ephesians 1:v.3 to 23, among others Scriptures.
that's not what it says.
it says The Worthy One was not found. then He was.
the God who hides Himself and reveals Himself to whom He chooses was hidden, then revealed.
it says that when John heard and believed, he saw that He was in the midst of the whole throne room and everyone in it,
even the throne itself.
Yes, John confessed that he wept much, because when the angel made the question to the crowd no one manifested himself as being worthy for.
THE GREAT QUESTION
Rev. 5:v.2
John AS A GUEST in the third heaven, he saw a strong angel (an Archangel) proclaiming with a loud voice in the midst of the great heavenly multitude, saying: "Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?" JESUS, crowned as King of kings and Lord of Lords was sat on the throne looking the celestial multitude and the sealed book.
No one from the heavenly crowd , yeah, no one there, presented himself as if he was able to open the book. No one of the multitude answer the question of the strong angel, there was a total silence.
Actually, with this question the strong angel of the Lord (an Archangel) wanted to tell to the great heavenly crowd if there was anyone worthy to open the book and break their seven seals besides JESUS. No one of the multitude answer the question. The silence was total. It was it.
THE GREAT QUESTION
Rev. 5:v.2
John AS A GUEST in the third heaven, he saw a strong angel (an Archangel) proclaiming with a loud voice in the midst of the great heavenly multitude, saying: "Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?" JESUS, crowned as King of kings and Lord of Lords was sat on the throne looking the celestial multitude and the sealed book.
No one from the heavenly crowd , yeah, no one there, presented himself as if he was able to open the book. No one of the multitude answer the question of the strong angel, there was a total silence.
Actually, with this question the strong angel of the Lord (an Archangel) wanted to tell to the great heavenly crowd if there was anyone worthy to open the book and break their seven seals besides JESUS. No one of the multitude answer the question. The silence was total. It was it.