Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

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Mar 4, 2020
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As previously stated, dispensationalism falsely teaches the book of Revelation is in chronological order, this is how they falsely create multiple battles, resurrections, and events

Yes Matthew 24:29 & Revelation 16:12-17 are the same event, that proceeds the second coming, the hour of earth's temptation.

Matthew 24:29KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Revelation 6:12-17KJV
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Yes and notice what Isaiah 13 says. It's very similar.

Isaiah 13:9-13
9Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
 

Truth7t7

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BUT the AC kills all without the mark.
Your claim is "False" the church will be present on earth during the tribulation, and witness the second coming, as they will look up and watch their redemption return.

Luke 21:25-29KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
 

Truth7t7

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The hepatitic structure of the book of Revelation is beyond dispute. Maybe you can do a study on that first and hopefully move forward.
Merriam-Webster

Other Words from hepatitis

hepatitic \ -ˈtit-ik \ adjective


Hepatitic?

What does the bible structure have to do with hepatitis? :giggle:
 
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cv5

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Here's a post I made some time back (on this Subject):

[quoting old post]


SEALS. Here's what I believe regarding them.

1) the phrase "the beginning of birth PANGS [plural]" (Matt24:4-8 [correlating with the SEALS of Rev6]) STARTS with an INITIAL "birth PANG [singular]" (1Th5:2-3 'birth PANG [singular]'), and this is what kicks off "the DOTL [time period]" (its ARRIVAL)

----------["the DOTL" includes: the 7-yr trib upon the earth, Christ's Second Coming to the earth, AND His 1000-yr reign on/over the earth--ALL earth-occurring happenings]

2) the "he, he, he" of Daniel 9:27(26b) is the "who, who, who" ['whose,' 'who,' 'whom'] of 2 Thessalonians 2:3-9 [his 'beginning,' his 'middle,' his 'end']

----------[BOTH passages are telling of events lasting "7 years / 1 Week"--its 'beginning,' its 'middle,' its 'end']

3) The "whose coming" (of the above-mentioned--'beginning' of the man of sin, 2Th2:9) is the "he" of Daniel 9:27a, who kicks off the "7-yr / 1 Week" thing

---------[this kicks off /STARTS "the DOTL" time period--the "in the night" way the DOTL ARRIVES, the "in his time" of the man of sin (being "revealed", 2Th2:6), Dan7:7]

4) Paul is correcting the Thessalonians' false notion that the DOTL "IS PRESENT" (this false notion is due to the negative circumstances they were presently experiencing [2Th1:4], and false informers telling them this was so [2Th2:2-3a,15]). He's correcting this by saying, "that day [the DOTL time period] will not be present if not shall have come THE Departure [noun] FIRST" (the noun-event he had already just referred to in verse 1 [our 'episynagōgēs [noun] UNTO HIM'], as well as in 1Th4:17 ['the meeting [noun] of the Lord IN THE AIR'], aka 'the hope of salvation [nouns]'[1Th5:8c]/our [SURE] Rapture)

----------["the DOTL" WILL then be "PRESENT" (with its "man of sin" in his time), once "THE DEPARTURE" (our rapture) takes place (*FIRST*)... but NOT "UNTIL" (2Th2:7b-8a)]

5) "anti-christ" can mean pseudo-christ or in-place-of-christ, and the rider of the white horse at the beginning of Revelation seems to fit this bill in several ways (recall, I said "the beginning of birth PANGS [plural]" match the SEALS of Rev6... and so this would be the INITIAL "birth PANG [singular]"--the ARRIVAL/START/BEGINNING of the DOTL and the presence ['whose coming'] of the man of sin)

----------[the words for "conquering" and "to conquer" (Rev6:2) are the same words later used in 11:7 and 13:7, referring to when he LATER "shall overcome them, and kill them [the 2 Witnesses]" and "to make war with the saints, and to overcome them" (see Daniel 7:21 "made war with the saints, and prevailed against them")]

6) by this point in the Revelation (meaning, the SEALS in Rev6), we've already seen the "24 elders upon 24 thrones" (Rev4:4,10;5:8-10)... and where did they get their "stephanous/crowns"? I believe these represent "the Church which is His body" (of whom "the Rapture" solely pertains--not to saints of all other time periods [not OT saints, not trib saints, not MK saints])--The Church is told in 1Cor6:2-3, "the world shall be judged by you," and "that we shall judge angels" (hence the "thrones"... up there [and before the FIRST SEAL is opened]).

----------[see Paul's "stephanos/crown" in 2Tim4:8 ("which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day"--the Day of Christ UP THERE WITH HIM [whereas the "DOTL" is earthly-occurring; the "DofCHR," by contrast, is UP THERE WITH HIM [note: 2Th2:2 should read "DOTL"--the earth-occurring time period, not the UP THERE thing which is the "DofCHR"]--while they run concurrently, they are different locations, different groups, different purposes)]

7) "When?" Well, without disclosing my entire opinion on the chronology of The Revelation , I can say that I do detect an outline of 7-years-duration [or 2520 days] from what we see at the opening of the FIRST SEAL (Rev5/6:1-2) to His 2nd Coming to the earth (Rev19; "kings go out to battle" and "kings [were] crowned" at a certain time, per Scripture elsewhere, for example)


CONCLUSION: the INITIAL "birth PANG [singular]" = "the revealing of the man of sin" = the FIRST SEAL = the START of the DOTL (the 7-yr / 1 Week "DARK" portion OF that very long "time period")... many more "birth PANGS [plural]" FOLLOW that point in time (Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8[/Lk21:8-11]<---these BEGINNING of BPs are just "the beginning..." ; ) ).


So that's how I see the SEALS (ALL "future" to us... and future to our "Departure"/Rapture [which is for a specific purpose] ).



Adding this: Rev1:1 says, "to shew unto His servants things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [noun]"... (so I do not believe the "Historicist view" of The Revelation is correct; the idea that the Seals started in the first century and/or that it is describing events unfolding over some 2000 years. No.)

The OT saints, and the Trib saints who die in the trib, are "resurrected" at the END of the trib (Dan12:13; Rev20:4b), but "the Church which is His body" is resurrected/raptured just before the DOTL time period commences (and we are UP THERE "WITH" Him [for the "MARRIAGE" itself] while those 7 years / 70th-Wk unfolds upon the earth, returning "WITH" Him at His 2nd Coming to the earth, FOR the wedding FEAST/SUPPER aka the earthly MK (which the OT saints, resurrected [at END of trib], won't enjoy "without us" [their promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom])]

[end quoting old post]
That is precisely the way I see it as well. Exactly, with no variation whatsoever.
 

cv5

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Merriam-Webster

Other Words from hepatitis

hepatitic \ -ˈtit-ik \ adjective

Hepatitic?

What does the bible structure have to do with hepatitis? :giggle:
Sorry......spelling with my microphone here......"HEPTADIC"
 

Truth7t7

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What's your take on post #2,473?

https://christianchat.com/threads/l...the-rapture-is-compelling.197095/post-4550616

In particular I would like to hear an answer for this question:

How could every island and mountain be destroyed in the 6th seal and 7th vial if they aren't the same thing?
Unfortunately they disregard the very simple truth of scripture, to maintain their false teaching, of course they know, they have been shown "Several Times"

Sorta like a 6 year old kid that is told Santa Claus dosent exist, and the kid still wants to believe he's real, waiting for the tooth fairy to come in a pre-trib rapture :giggle:
 

cv5

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What's your take on post #2,473?

https://christianchat.com/threads/l...the-rapture-is-compelling.197095/post-4550616

In particular I would like to hear an answer for this question:

How could every island and mountain be destroyed in the 6th seal and 7th vial if they aren't the same thing?
There are in entire series of earthquakes.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/nkjv/rev/8/12/s_1175012

But the Rev 6 birth pangs/seals earthquake is noted as specific....per Mark 13:8
https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=earthquakes&t=NKJV#s=s_primary_0_1
 
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Same Battle, Same Lake Of Fire, Same Final Judgment, Same Event Seen Below In "Parallel" Teachings

Revelation 19:19KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 20:8-10KJV
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
I'm tired of your repeated copy and paste posts. Why don't you answer my questions. Because you can't.
 
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You defy being taught, you have a Pre-Determined bias, and the truth of scripture has no meaning

Namely your false belief and teaching in a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth

Perhaps you can help me find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) No Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) No Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) No Physical Mortal Humans?


The Above Claims (Don't Exist), A 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Is A Man Made Fairy Tale (Fact)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time (Fact)

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
I'm tired of your tired copy & paste posts.

Just answer my questions. Or try.
 
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I don't disagree that in the book of Revelation the GWT comes after the 1,000 year reign of Christ, but in the 7th trumpet it says God's wrath comes, the dead are judged, and the saints are rewarded.
Another poster claims that the "spiritual" 1,000 years ends when Christ returns at the Second Advent. That is ridiculous.

If the 7th (and last) trumpet is the return Christ then it would seem conclusive that the 1,000 year reign of Christ is spiritual. When Christ literally returns it's the resurrection, the rapture, judgement, the end of the world.
I'm glad you began with "if". It's a big one. No one can prove that the 3 sets of judgments are parallel. Yes, there are similarities, but there are also differences. I see them as in series. I haven't seen any proof one way or the other. We'll just have to wait and see, if we live that long.

Bonus question:
Is Jesus referring to the "kingdom of God" that can't be seen, but exists within, as the millennial kingdom?
I love to answer questions, unlike that other poster who just keeps ignoring them.

It seems reasonable that He was referring to the Millennial kingdom. Given Rev 20, I can't see how it isn't literal.

Luke 17:20-21
20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
When a person believes in the Messiah, they enter the kingdom of God. You could say the sphere of God. I see no problem between this and Revelation being literal.
 
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Another poster claims that the "spiritual" 1,000 years ends when Christ returns at the Second Advent. That is ridiculous.


I'm glad you began with "if". It's a big one. No one can prove that the 3 sets of judgments are parallel. Yes, there are similarities, but there are also differences. I see them as in series. I haven't seen any proof one way or the other. We'll just have to wait and see, if we live that long.


I love to answer questions, unlike that other poster who just keeps ignoring them.

It seems reasonable that He was referring to the Millennial kingdom. Given Rev 20, I can't see how it isn't literal.


When a person believes in the Messiah, they enter the kingdom of God. You could say the sphere of God. I see no problem between this and Revelation being literal.
I'm teachable on the millennial kingdom. So if Christ returns before the millennial kingdom and flesh and blood can't inherit the kingdom of God, but rather we must be "changed" then what is the millennial kingdom and when?

Verse 51 says it's a mystery. It sounds Like this changing, this mystery, has something to do with a resurrection and being changed.

1 Corinthians 15:50-51
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Also notice how these verses describe the resurrection:

1 Corinthians 15:42-44
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

So the millennial kingdom, if I understand correctly, would contain spiritual bodies. It's a lot to wrap the head around.
 

Truth7t7

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There are in entire series of earthquakes.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/nkjv/rev/8/12/s_1175012

But the Rev 6 birth pangs/seals earthquake is noted as specific....per Mark 13:8
https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=earthquakes&t=NKJV#s=s_primary_0_1
Your links are not relevant, nor do they support your claim

You spend your entire time and energy, running around hammering plugs in the sinking boat of dispensationalism

Will you ever let go of that shiny object in a pre-trib rapture, found no place in scripture?
 

cv5

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In none of the visions of the throne room of God (by the prophets Ezekiel Daniel Isaiah etc.) in the Old Testament are the 24 Elders of Revelation seen or noted.

The 24 Elders only show up "meta tauta"......after the Church age.
-Thrones
-Crowns
-White reignment

All of these items referenced in rev 2 & 3

Clearly this group is representative of the raptured Church.
 

cv5

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In none of the visions of the throne room of God (by the prophets Ezekiel Daniel Isaiah etc.) in the Old Testament are the 24 Elders of Revelation seen or noted.

The 24 Elders only show up "meta tauta"......after the Church age.
-Thrones
-Crowns
-White reignment

All of these items referenced in rev 2 & 3

Clearly this group is representative of the raptured Church.
raiment.....lol. Microphone again......:censored:
 

Truth7t7

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I'm teachable on the millennial kingdom. So if Christ returns before the millennial kingdom and flesh and blood can't inherit the kingdom of God, but rather we must be "changed" then what is the millennial kingdom and when?

Verse 51 says it's a mystery. It sounds Like this changing, this mystery, has something to do with a resurrection and being changed.

1 Corinthians 15:50-51
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Also notice how these verses describe the resurrection:

1 Corinthians 15:42-44
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

So the millennial kingdom, if I understand correctly, would contain spiritual bodies. It's a lot to wrap the head around.
Exactly, your catching on

You go directly to the Text they claim a Millennial Kingdom is seen, Revelation 20:1-6 that I have posted several times, no Kingdom or Mortal Humans are seen

Then they drag you quickly off to the Old testament, Isaiah 11, 65, Ezekiel 47, and claim the Eternal Kingdom seen is their 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth

Millennialism is exactly the same as a pre-trib rapture, the ole bait and switch, hocus-pocus, wave the magicians wand :giggle:
 

Truth7t7

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In none of the visions of the throne room of God (by the prophets Ezekiel Daniel Isaiah etc.) in the Old Testament are the 24 Elders of Revelation seen or noted.

The 24 Elders only show up "meta tauta"......after the Church age.
-Thrones
-Crowns
-White reignment

All of these items referenced in rev 2 & 3

Clearly this group is representative of the raptured Church.
Wow, you magically know exactly how these 24 elders left the earth, amazing :giggle:

Do you have their earthly names tooooo?
 

cv5

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Rev 5:5
But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”

This is a tell of course. These are Jewish titles of Yeshua HaMashiach.....because prophetic history has switched gears from the times of the gentiles/Church age to the 70th week of Daniel. Which is the time of wrath upon the earth-dwellers and the time of Jacob's trouble.

Jewish titles of Christ are never used in chapters 2 and 3.......;)
 

cv5

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BTW......the seven golden candlesticks, (representative of the seven Churches), have been taken up off the earth and now reside in heaven. Along with the Church itself of course, who are represented by the 24 elders. These elders are kings and priests, have crowns of gold, sit on thrones, and wear white raiment. Unmistakably this is the raptured Church.

Rev 1:20
“The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.


Rev 4:5
And from the throne proceeded lightnings, thunderings, and voices. Seven lamps of fire were burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.