The banishment of Adam and Eve

[Hungry]

if i think God is different throughout scripture then i either do not understand or do not believe what i'm reading -- because i get the fact that He is the same yesterday, today and forever from scripture.

I agree, He is the same. I think how people portray Him by their interpretation of scripture changes however.

 

[crossnote]

It is not my logic. It is a story. Read it again. Not once does it say the snake was Satan. It claims the snake was subtle/craftiest over all other beasts of the field. Snakes, something they dealt with in the desert. They bit their heals and they crushed snakes’ heads, like it said. Man assumed that was prophetic. Food from trees, something they could relate to. I’m just reading the story like it was delivered. You can believe in talking snakes and miraculous forbidden fruit all you want. Christ barely taught a lesson without a parable. It’s all about relatability. If the Bible was every bit as obvious as you claim then there would be no debates it. Casting insults is childish. I don’t assume you love the Lord less than I do because you don’t agree with me. We are all supposed to be one Body. Trees and fruit reminds me of another metaphor used by Christ. I am His, even if we disagree on my interpretation. I don’t doubt you are. Blessings, back to the garden...the real garden. It’s the nicest day this spring where I’m at.

Do you read every book as a metaphor? Is Romans 5 a metaphor? Is sin a metaphor? Is death a metaphor?

Romans 5:12-21 (KJV) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

I have mentioned Romans 5 a number of times but you keep ignoring it. I guess Paul believes in fables and therefore most of the NT is a Fable because he wrote a big chunk of it.
Do you also consider the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ a fable or a metaphor?

 

[posthuman]

I agree, He is the same. I think how people portray Him by their interpretation of scripture changes however.

i think it's a massive failure of the church that so many have pretty much discarded the whole OT as though it's a different God or isn't for us or whatever. every single page is about Christ!

 

[posthuman]

Do you read every book as a metaphor? Is Romans 5 a metaphor? Is sin a metaphor? Is death a metaphor?

Romans 5:12-21 (KJV) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

I have mentioned Romans 5 a number of times but you keep ignoring it. I guess Paul believes in fables and therefore most of the NT is a Fable because he wrote a big chunk of it.
Do you also consider the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ a fable or a metaphor?

Paul finds great meaning and allegory in Genesis, and at the same time Paul seems to believe it is literally true, actual events and real people who are just who it's written they are, and who did just what is described.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

i think it's a massive failure of the church that so many have pretty much discarded the whole OT as though it's a different God or isn't for us or whatever. every single page is about Christ!

I do not believe "every single page is about Christ!" ... however, I do believe that much of Scripture will be opened up to our understanding once we turn our hearts to the Lord Jesus Christ and seek to know how He is revealed in Scripture:

2 Corinthians 3:

12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

13 And not as Moses, [which] put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which [vail] is done away in Christ.

15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16 Nevertheless when it [our heart] shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.

18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.

4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;

2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

It is not stated explicitly, but implied in the following Scriptures (Gen 2:8,9,15):
And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil... And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

From this we may conclude that Eden was reserved for Adam and Eve and their progeny. Adam was made steward of Eden (also called Paradise elsewhere). In contrast, the other creatures are called "the beasts of the field, and the fowls of the air" (v 19): And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air... The Hebrew word for field is sadeh [saw-deh] and according to Brown-Driver-Briggs it means "home of wild beasts: ׳בְּהֵמוֺת שׂ Psalm 8:8; Joel 2:22, ׳חַיְתוֺ שׂ Isaiah 56:9; Psalm 104:11, ׳זִזִ שׂ Psalm 50:11; Psalm 80:14."

So all the other creatures were outside Eden in their own habitat ("the field"), but man was given a privileged position in Eden, since God made man in His own image, and in His own likeness, and had fellowship with Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. The Bible even says that God "planted" this garden/orchard for man, which is an amazing thought. As we see in chapter one, God simply spoke the vegetable kingdom into existence. But here it says He planted an orchard.

We should also note that in chapter 1 God is Elohim (the triune Godhead). But in chapter 2 He is "the LORD God" (Yahweh Elohim) which speaks of a relationship between God and Man. Jesus is the LORD God, since He is the Creator (John 1:1-3).

It's an interesting idea and I'm thinking about it. But, I haven't come to that understanding in my studies yet. If it's truth, hopefully I will. But, I'm not seeing your exclusive country club scenario.

 

[Magenta]

Imagine if you will that God creates Adam, then plants the garden of Eden for him. After that He brings Adam outside and causes all the other creatures (which were all created before Adam according to chapter 1) to pass by Adam while he names them.

Fanciful... but not what Scripture says, which you edited out of my post. Here it is again:

Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and He brought them to the man to see what he would name each one. And whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.

 

[posthuman]

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord

so we, with the veil taken away, hear the books of Moses read, and behold in them the glory of the Lord.

but OK, pick a page - and let's see if we can't find Christ testified of in it?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Fanciful... but not what Scripture says, which you edited out of my post. Here it is again:

Are you seriously suggested that all the creatures which God had created entered into the Garden of Eden and traipsed around? There is nothing fanciful in drawing reasonable and logical conclusions from Scripture (which is not explicit about everything). And we did not need that quote since that was already a given.

 

[Magenta]

i think it's a massive failure of the church that so many have pretty much discarded the whole
OT as though it's a different God or isn't for us or whatever. every single page is about Christ!

Luke 24:27 + 31a

 

[Magenta]

Are you seriously suggested that all the creatures which God had created entered into the Garden of Eden and traipsed around? There is nothing fanciful in drawing reasonable and logical conclusions from Scripture (which is not explicit about everything). And we did not need that quote since that was already a given.

I am seriously suggesting we stick with what Scripture explicitly states, yes

 

[Hungry]

Do you read every book as a metaphor? Is Romans 5 a metaphor? Is sin a metaphor? Is death a metaphor?

Romans 5:12-21 (KJV) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

I have mentioned Romans 5 a number of times but you keep ignoring it. I guess Paul believes in fables and therefore most of the NT is a Fable because he wrote a big chunk of it.
Do you also consider the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ a fable or a metaphor?

I did acknowledge it. I said that continuing or perpetuating a metaphor doesn’t mean it’s literal. I think he was addressing a crowd of people who spent their lives listening to stories. Why at that point in time to farmers, and fishermen would he explain psychology, endocrinology and metaphysics. People today don’t even care to learn. If I was explaining it to a child, I would break it down like Paul did. Sin isn’t metaphor. It’s not simple either. Paul explains that conscience also determines what is personally sin for us while explaining eating meat sacrificed to idols. This validates my point for guilt separating us from God. Paul is a teacher. Teachers use what ever means available to convey the lesson. His lesson, Christ is Lord. You are saved by Him alone.

 

[crossnote]

I did acknowledge it. I said that continuing or perpetuating a metaphor doesn’t mean it’s literal. I think he was addressing a crowd of people who spent their lives listening to stories. Why at that point in time to farmers, and fishermen would he explain psychology, endocrinology and metaphysics. People today don’t even care to learn. If I was explaining it to a child, I would break it down like Paul did. Sin isn’t metaphor. It’s not simple either. Paul explains that conscience also determines what is personally sin for us while explaining eating meat sacrificed to idols. This validates my point for guilt separating us from God. Paul is a teacher. Teachers use what ever means available to convey the lesson. His lesson, Christ is Lord. You are saved by Him alone.

Do you believe Jesus arose from the dead in a physical body?

 

[crossnote]

I do not believe "every single page is about Christ!" ...

Could you list the page #s which aren't about Christ?
(just kidding)

 

[Hungry]

Do you believe Jesus arose from the dead in a physical body?

I believe He rose from the dead in a body that appeared physical.

 

[crossnote]

I believe He rose from the dead in a body that appeared physical.

“And why do doubts arise in your hearts? Look at My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself! Touch Me and see, because a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you can see I have.” (Luke 24:36-39 HCSB)​

And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.” And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:26-28 NKJV)

“And we apostles are witnesses of all he did throughout Israel and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by crucifying him, but God raised him to life three days later. Then God allowed him to appear, not to the general public, but to us whom God had chosen beforehand to be his witnesses. We were those who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.” (Acts 10:39-41 NLT)

 

[Hungry]

“And why do doubts arise in your hearts? Look at My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself! Touch Me and see, because a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you can see I have.” (Luke 24:36-39 HCSB)​

And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.” And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:26-28 NKJV)

“And we apostles are witnesses of all he did throughout Israel and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by crucifying him, but God raised him to life three days later. Then God allowed him to appear, not to the general public, but to us whom God had chosen beforehand to be his witnesses. We were those who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.” (Acts 10:39-41 NLT)

Exactly! With the doors shut then Jesus was in the midst of them? Physically...teleporting?

 

[crossnote]

Exactly! With the doors shut then Jesus was in the midst of them? Physically...teleporting?

Was that an exclamation or a question?

 

[Hungry]

Was that an exclamation or a question?

An exclamatory inquiry.

 

[crossnote]

An exclamatory inquiry. Exactly! With the doors shut then Jesus was in the midst of them? Physically...teleporting?

Mark 16:3-4 (KJV) And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.

Matthew 28:2 (KJV) And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

Jesus departed through the sealed tomb and then an angel rolled away the stone. You can call it teleporting in your unbelief all you want. He was no longer under the physical restraints we are in this fallen world.