the day of Pentecost

[throughfaith]

As in Paul:

Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith (Gal 3:11)".

For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith. (Romans 1:17)

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8)



You do know that Paul lifted this teaching straight out of the OT?

Then you will notice he doesn't quote it the same way . In the OT its the ' just shall live by HIS faith ' . Thats not what Paul says .
Notice how Paul quotes the difference in Rom 10 ,9-15 That is different to the OT verses in Deaut

 

[throughfaith]

the writing of Matthew was by those who were saved and regenerated. That too must be taken into account.

Moreover, Mark 16 14-20 and Matthew 28:16-20 were said BY the resurrected Lord. Your point is not well-founded. The regeneration of them (the disciples) is shown in John chapter 20:21-22 and in the confession that is recorded.

21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As jthe Father has sent me, keven so I am sending you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”


Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”

28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

The very last two verse states this truth:


30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;

31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
many other Gospels Jesus gave commandment to the body of Christ that was said after the resurrection and the saving of disciples.

Paul said Jesus spent 40 days with them ( the disciples) after He rose from the dead and was seen by 500 eyewitnesses those 500 they were not saved? Paul said many who are with us today.
1cor chapter 15.

the writing of Matthew was by those who were saved and regenerated.
Yes at the time they wrote . But they still wrote what was said before the cross also .

 

[SophieT]

and here we have the op illustrated

offer truth and have it rebutted before you get to the 2nd page

amen

 

[CS1]

Do you have anything explicitly said?

for what explicitly?

 

[phil36]

Then you will notice he doesn't quote it the same way . In the OT its the ' just shall live by HIS faith ' . Thats not what Paul says .
Notice how Paul quotes the difference in Rom 10 ,9-15 That is different to the OT verses in Deaut

What does Paul say himself?

For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith. (Romans 1:17)

The righteous will live by faith.. whose faith? his own! The object of that(OT) faith was God himself - belief that God will protect and redeem his own and fulfill His promises, ''For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory'' (1 Cor 1:20). The object of faith for those now looking back is in Him, (Christ (Messiah)). What is called the work of Christ is the climax of redemptive history, His perfect life lived, death and resurrection.

So Paul lifts straight from the OT:

Habakkuk 2:4 -

“Behold, his soul is puffed up; it is not upright within him, but the righteous shall live by his faith.

The contrast in the two clauses is between the evil Babylon/King and the righteous who lives by his (own) faith in God. The whole crux of the first part of Habakkuk is his complaining prayers to God on why God would use a wicked nation to crush Judah. So the contrasting point Hab 2:4 is this.. the wicked and proud trust in their own might... but the righteous trust (have faith) in God.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

We've been down this track already. If you believe that only the letters of Paul are to/for christian's that is up to you. It's been shown right down history that all errors start with misusing or belittling God's word.

I will leave you with a couple of thoughts. the final one is especially for you and its from Paul himself.


Luke 24:44-48 - He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things.

Now we have the written witness in God's word. Without the gospels we would not know what Jesus was like. Next is the one that is just for you right now.

Romans 15:4 - For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.

What scriptures is Paul talking about? (This is not to undermine the rest of the NT ) ''All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work (2 Timothy 3:16).

I think Paul would be extremely perplexed by your ''Paul only'' view of scripture. I can only wonder what out Lord thinks about how you diminish his Holy Word.

 

[throughfaith]

for what explicitly?

For what you believe.

 

[CS1]

No one is regenerated until the giving of the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 . Its the whole point of Acts 2 . Jesus keeps explaining what should come when the Holy Spirit is given . Its a major transition . Its a major event . Jesus has to depart in order for this to happen . Its a monumental occurrence. Its how We are also put into the body of Christ and christ becomes in us .. its a massive event ..Its the whole point of Jesus sending the comforter.
John 7
37¶In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

You do not know when the Holy Spirit is given, what we do know is all who call on the name of the Lord Must be saved?

No, shall be saved as Jesus said. The Holy Spirit helps one to call on Jesus by the conviction He brings to the person in a godly sorrow that leads to repentance that leads to salvation as the belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit enables one to accept Jesus.

 

[throughfaith]

What does Paul say himself?

For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith. (Romans 1:17)

The righteous will live by faith.. whose faith? his own! The object of that(OT) faith was God himself - belief that God will protect and redeem his own and fulfill His promises, ''For all the promises of God find their Yes in him. That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory'' (1 Cor 1:20). The object of faith for those now looking back is in Him, (Christ (Messiah)). What is called the work of Christ is the climax of redemptive history, His perfect life lived, death and resurrection.

So Paul lifts straight from the OT:

Habakkuk 2:4 -

“Behold, his soul is puffed up; it is not upright within him, but the righteous shall live by his faith.

The contrast in the two clauses is between the evil Babylon/King and the righteous who lives by his (own) faith in God. The whole crux of the first part of Habakkuk is his complaining prayers to God on why God would use a wicked nation to crush Judah. So the contrasting point Hab 2:4 is this.. the wicked and proud trust in their own might... but the righteous trust (have faith) in God.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

We've been down this track already. If you believe that only the letters of Paul are to/for christian's that is up to you. It's been shown right down history that all errors start with misusing or belittling God's word.

I will leave you with a couple of thoughts. the final one is especially for you and its from Paul himself.


Luke 24:44-48 - He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things.

Now we have the written witness in God's word. Without the gospels we would not know what Jesus was like. Next is the one that is just for you right now.

Romans 15:4 - For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.

What scriptures is Paul talking about? (This is not to undermine the rest of the NT ) ''All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work (2 Timothy 3:16).

I think Paul would be extremely perplexed by your ''Paul only'' view of scripture. I can only wonder what out Lord thinks about how you diminish his Holy Word.

You misunderstanding my position ..Or rather, your misrepresenting my position . Its like I say " I like apples and you reply " you said you only ever eat apples " . Your not really listening to my points.

 

[throughfaith]

You do not know when the Holy Spirit is given, what we do know is all who call on the name of the Lord Must be saved?

No, shall be saved as Jesus said. The Holy Spirit helps one to call on Jesus by the conviction He brings to the person in a godly sorrow that leads to repentance that leads to salvation as the belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit enables one to accept Jesus.

John 7
37¶In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Acts 1:5

“For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”

 

[CS1]

the writing of Matthew was by those who were saved and regenerated.
Yes at the time they wrote . But they still wrote what was said before the cross also .

no the context of Matthews 28 and Mark 16 was after the resurrection.

 

[throughfaith]

You do not know when the Holy Spirit is given, what we do know is all who call on the name of the Lord Must be saved?

No, shall be saved as Jesus said. The Holy Spirit helps one to call on Jesus by the conviction He brings to the person in a godly sorrow that leads to repentance that leads to salvation as the belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit enables one to accept Jesus.

//You do not know when the Holy Spirit is given//
Acts 11
13And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

 

[throughfaith]

no the context of Matthews 28 and Mark 16 was after the resurrection.

Yes but not after Acts 2 . Jesus had not yet ascended .

 

[throughfaith]

You do not know when the Holy Spirit is given, what we do know is all who call on the name of the Lord Must be saved?

No, shall be saved as Jesus said. The Holy Spirit helps one to call on Jesus by the conviction He brings to the person in a godly sorrow that leads to repentance that leads to salvation as the belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit enables one to accept Jesus.

John 16:7

“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away : for if I go not away, the Comforter WILL NOT COME UNTO YOU ; but IF I DEPART ,I WILL SEND HIM UNTO YOU "

 

[throughfaith]

You do not know when the Holy Spirit is given, what we do know is all who call on the name of the Lord Must be saved?

No, shall be saved as Jesus said. The Holy Spirit helps one to call on Jesus by the conviction He brings to the person in a godly sorrow that leads to repentance that leads to salvation as the belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit enables one to accept Jesus.

7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8And WHEN HE HAS COME , HE WILL reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12¶I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

 

[throughfaith]

no the context of Matthews 28 and Mark 16 was after the resurrection.

Matthew 28 reaches further than Mark 16 .

 

[throughfaith]

You do not know when the Holy Spirit is given, what we do know is all who call on the name of the Lord Must be saved?

No, shall be saved as Jesus said. The Holy Spirit helps one to call on Jesus by the conviction He brings to the person in a godly sorrow that leads to repentance that leads to salvation as the belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit enables one to accept Jesus.

This happens AFTER acts 2 ,not before. AFTER Jesus goes away .
“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away : for if I go not away, the Comforter WILL NOT COME UNTO YOU ; but IF I DEPART ,I WILL SEND HIM UNTO YOU "

8And WHEN HE HAS COME , HE WILL reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12¶I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

 

[CS1]

For what you believe.

John 20:22 ,

Mark 16:14-20 Matthew 28 Luke chapter 24:44-49

 

[CS1]

John 7
37¶In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Acts 1:5

“For John truly baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”

they were already saved the Holy Spirit given in Acts to was for power to be a witness as Jesus said in Acts 1:8 not for salvation

John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

and Luke 24:45
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,


this all happen before the day of Pentecost.

 

[CS1]

Matthew 28 reaches further than Mark 16 .

not further bu more insight as does Luke 24 and John 20

 

[CS1]

This happens AFTER acts 2 ,not before. AFTER Jesus goes away .
“Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away : for if I go not away, the Comforter WILL NOT COME UNTO YOU ; but IF I DEPART ,I WILL SEND HIM UNTO YOU "

8And WHEN HE HAS COME , HE WILL reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12¶I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

not according to John 20 and Luke 24