the day of Pentecost

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throughfaith

Well-known member
#41
Aug 4, 2020
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#41
CS1 said:
John 20:22 ,

Mark 16:14-20 Matthew 28 Luke chapter 24:44-49
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Yes its a common mistake to say they recieved the Holy Spirit in the same way as acts 2 . Look at Acts 11 again .
14Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved

15And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning ( Acts 2 )

16Then remembered ( its now 10 years after Acts 2 ) I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water;But ye shall be BAPTISED WITH THE HOLY GHOST ( This is not what happened in John 20 . They simply received the Holy Spirit in the OT Sense, where the Spirit would come and go for a specific purpose and task )

17Forasmuch then as God GAVE THEM ( GAVE WHO WHAT ? AND WHEN ?) the LIKE GIFT !! AS HE DID UNTO US !! , who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18¶When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, THEN HATH GOD ALSO TO THE GENTILES granted repentance unto life.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#42
Aug 4, 2020
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#42
CS1 said:
they were already saved the Holy Spirit given in Acts to was for power to be a witness as Jesus said in Acts 1:8 not for salvation

John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

and Luke 24:45
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,


this all happen before the day of Pentecost.
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Nope when the gentiles recieve the Holy Spirit ( as Peter says they recieved also in Acts 2 ,as that's what Jesus had commanded them to wait for in the upper room ) Peter says ' saved ' . look again .Acts 11
14Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house SHALL BE SAVED !!!

15 AND AS I BEGAN TO SPEAK, THE HOLY GHOST FELL ON THEM, AS ON US AT THE BEGINNING ( ACTS 2 )

16Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18¶When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#44
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#44
CS1 said:
they were already saved the Holy Spirit given in Acts to was for power to be a witness as Jesus said in Acts 1:8 not for salvation

John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

and Luke 24:45
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,


this all happen before the day of Pentecost.
Click to expand...
//were already saved the Holy Spirit given in Acts to was for power to be a witness as Jesus said in Acts 1:8 not for salvation// Yes this is the faulty teaching that some pentacostal denominations teach .
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#45
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#45
CS1 said:
they were already saved the Holy Spirit given in Acts to was for power to be a witness as Jesus said in Acts 1:8 not for salvation

John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

and Luke 24:45
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,


this all happen before the day of Pentecost.
Click to expand...
//were already saved the Holy Spirit given in Acts to was for power to be a witness as Jesus said in Acts 1:8 not for salvation// Yes this is the faulty teaching that some pentacostal denominations teach .
If this is the case then in Acts 11 those gentiles must have already been saved also and Just recieved the Holy Spirit for ' power ' and to be a witness ' . But thats not what Peter says . He says THEY recieved it Just the same as them . And THEY were saved when the Holy Spirit fell on them . Evidenced EXACTLY the same , with speaking in tongues . When Peter sees that they speak in tongues as they did 10 years earlier in Acts 2 ,he knows salvation has come to the gentiles. He says :
14Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
And :
16Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18¶When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God ALSO to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#46
May 23, 2012
13,067
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#46
throughfaith said:
Yes its a common mistake to say they recieved the Holy Spirit in the same way as acts 2 . Look at Acts 11 again .
14Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved

15And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning ( Acts 2 )

16Then remembered ( its now 10 years after Acts 2 ) I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water;But ye shall be BAPTISED WITH THE HOLY GHOST ( This is not what happened in John 20 . They simply received the Holy Spirit in the OT Sense, where the Spirit would come and go for a specific purpose and task )

17Forasmuch then as God GAVE THEM ( GAVE WHO WHAT ? AND WHEN ?) the LIKE GIFT !! AS HE DID UNTO US !! , who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18¶When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, THEN HATH GOD ALSO TO THE GENTILES granted repentance unto life.
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I'm sorry you are confusing. Acts 2:16 is 10 days after Jesus ascended.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#47
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#47
CS1 said:
they were already saved the Holy Spirit given in Acts to was for power to be a witness as Jesus said in Acts 1:8 not for salvation

John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

and Luke 24:45
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,


this all happen before the day of Pentecost.
Click to expand...
So are you saying that God only gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to gentiles, but to those Jews it was a different gift ,that was really only for ' empowerment ' and to be a witness? Are you saying all those Jews Peter is preaching to in Acts 2 were already born again ?
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#49
May 23, 2012
13,067
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#49
throughfaith said:
When did the Holy spirit FALL on THEM ? ( As it says in Acts 11 .15 ? ) It didn't FALL on THEM in John 20 .
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The Holy Spirit as Jesus said in John chapter 14 -16 The Comforter the Holy Spirit will be IN you and with you, HE will come upon you and be in you. John 14:17

The Holy Spirit comes to live in you to bare witness that you are saved. The Holy Spirit comes upon you to empower one to be a witness to the resurrected lord.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#51
May 23, 2012
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#51
throughfaith said:
So are you saying that God only gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to gentiles, but to those Jews it was a different gift ,that was really only for ' empowerment ' and to be a witness? Are you saying all those Jews Peter is preaching to in Acts 2 were already born again ?
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No you are saying that.

I am saying the scriptures show the disciples were saved before the day of Pentacost. Seen in John 20:22 and Luke 24:45.

The Gentiles heard the Gospel receive it and did not have to wait for the empowering of the Holy Spirit because when they accepted Jesus the Power of God fell while Peter was still speaking. Acts 10:44
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#53
Aug 4, 2020
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#53
CS1 said:
The Holy Spirit as Jesus said in John chapter 14 -16 The Comforter the Holy Spirit will be IN you and with you, HE will come upon you and be in you. John 14:17

The Holy Spirit comes to live in you to bare witness that you are saved. The Holy Spirit comes upon you to empower one to be a witness to the resurrected lord.
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16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you .
SHALL BE .

WHEN ? let's see .
John 16
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
When does Jesus ' go away ' ?
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#54
May 23, 2012
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#54
throughfaith said:
Your confused because you have swallowed 'pentacostal' teaching error .
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If you are going to be insulting and immature we can stop right here. I have provided spiritual references.

John chapters 14- 16

John 20:22

Luke 24:44-49
Mark 16 14: 20

Acts 1:8, Acts

You have not refuted my scriptural position you just resulted in insults. If What I said is an error then prove it. You and I are done. And you can feel free to leave my thread thank you for your time.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#55
May 23, 2012
13,067
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#55
throughfaith said:
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you .
SHALL BE .

WHEN ? let's see .
John 16
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
When does Jesus ' go away ' ?
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you and I are done. I am not willing to speak to a rude insulting person like yourself. You have not proven anything and I am no longer interested in what you have to say. thank you.
 
CS1

CS1

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#56
May 23, 2012
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#56
phil36 said:
I more or less agree with what your saying.




I agree with the main thrust of your statement that is ''those who practiced lawlessness, and used the gifts of the Holy Spirit to enrich themselves were no different than Simon the sorcerer. "

You just need to to turn on ''christian'' TV to see the circus in motion. It's sad really but the scriptures warn us well.

It is interesting that these are non believers (Matt 7), so although they look like they are bearing good fruit, it is in fact for their own praise and glory therefore its bad fruit, the enemy uses it to deceive. They are bad tree's bearing bad fruit (vanity,pride and greed). Wolves in sheep clothing masquerading as light.

Crossnote brings up an interesting point about legalism. They certainly seem to be very boastful in their works. Which is another bad sign of the condition of their hearts. Legalism is deadly. Jesus tells us they weren't one of his sheep.




I think this would be a good starting place.

I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing (1 Timothy 2:1-8).
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I like the point you address here is the humbleness that is maintained in constant prayer for each other and yourself. it is hard to be at odds with someone who you are praying for and with.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#57
Aug 4, 2020
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#57
CS1 said:
you and I are done. I am not willing to speak to a rude insulting person like yourself. You have not proven anything and I am no longer interested in what you have to say. thank you.
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Well I'm simply pointing out the verses that disprove what your saying .
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#58
May 23, 2012
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#58
throughfaith said:
Well I'm simply pointing out the verses that disprove what your saying .
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"Your confused because you have swallowed 'pentacostal' teaching error ."


really? Please show where in your comment here are the "Verses" that disapprove of what I said?

I don't remember seeing anything like that in the word of God.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#59
Dec 6, 2016
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#59
CS1 said:
the writing of Matthew was by those who were saved and regenerated. That too must be taken into account.

Moreover, Mark 16 14-20 and Matthew 28:16-20 were said BY the resurrected Lord. Your point is not well-founded. The regeneration of them (the disciples) is shown in John chapter 20:21-22 and in the confession that is recorded.

21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As jthe Father has sent me, keven so I am sending you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”


Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”

28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

The very last two verse states this truth:


30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;

31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
many other Gospels Jesus gave commandment to the body of Christ that was said after the resurrection and the saving of disciples.

Paul said Jesus spent 40 days with them ( the disciples) after He rose from the dead and was seen by 500 eyewitnesses those 500 they were not saved? Paul said many who are with us today.
1cor chapter 15.
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The crowd that Jesus was speaking to in Matt. 7 was made up of the ordinary Jew, they only knew of what they had heard of the lord in synagogue. Most could not read. They were there because Jesus had performed miracles and had fed them.

Of the four men God chose to give us the gospels, Matthew was the only Jewish scholar with the most knowledge of the old testament that Christ fulfilled.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#60
May 23, 2012
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#60
Blik said:
The crowd that Jesus was speaking to in Matt. 7 was made up of the ordinary Jew, they only knew of what they had heard of the lord in synagogue. Most could not read. They were there because Jesus had performed miracles and had fed them.

Of the four men God chose to give us the gospels, Matthew was the only Jewish scholar with the most knowledge of the old testament that Christ fulfilled.
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I'm sorry but Matthew Seven is the end of what is known as the sermon on the Mount. which starts in Mtthew chapter five and through six to the end of Seven.

The very last verses of the context all Jesus said in all three chapters is

28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
 
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